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Bolt II Review

Post Date: 2014-12-11

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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Bolt II Review
    Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 10:59pm
My goal for a new computer was to get a low power, low noise machine that was no larger, preferably smaller than my current 5-year old i7-930 machine I built, which was rather loud with 3 case fans running full speed all of the time and the performance was starting to show its age. I was looking around at a lot of cases to build my own machine and not finding any that were particularly thrilling. I began looking at mainstream and boutique manufacturers to see what systems they were putting together and once I came across the Bolt II, I was, I must admit, a bit enamored by the elegance of the packaging, with a zero maintenance all-in-one 240mm radiator CPU cooler in a fairly clean design.

I put together a configuration that suited my needs: I was interested in playing Assassin's Creed Unity; I wanted to use the full 3840 x 2160 at 60 Hz my UHD had for work and play; and meet the aforementioned requirement of being low noise. Here is what I ended up with:

Configuration URL:     https://www.digitalstormonline.com/configurator.asp?id=1113816
Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Pre-built Digital Storm Bolt II
Exterior Finish: Onyx Black Matte Finish
Trim Accents: - No Thanks
Processor: Intel Core i5 4590 3.30 GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS Z97I-PLUS (Intel Z97 Chipset) (Mini-ITX)
System Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 500W Digital Storm Bolt II Edition (Quiet) (Gold Plus Rated)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Optical Drive: Blu-Ray Player/DVD Writer (Play Blu-Ray and Burn DVDs) (Slim Slot Loading Edition)
Storage Set 1: - No Thanks
Storage Set 2: - No Thanks
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 1x AMD Radeon R7 240 2GB
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
HPC Processor: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: 240mm Radiator Liquid CPU Cooler (Extreme-Performance Edition)
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Fans: High Static Pressure - Corsair Air Series SP120 Fans (2x 120mm)
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Airflow Control: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Standard Intel Turbo Boost 2.0 Automatic Overclocking
Boost Graphics Card(s): - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD)
Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value)
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
Portable Gaming: - No Thanks
Branded Gear: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

I selected no storage as I was using a 512 GB Crucial M4 SSD I got for a laptop that was bought back under warranty. I also only spec'd the i5-4590 as I intend to either upgrade to an i7-5770K when they come out, or move to a Skylake, if the specs look extremely good on them, so any money saved now was money I could spend later (and the i5-4590 was "good enough" for my purposes; this dilemma is also why I'm deferring on getting good RAM, as Skylake will use DDR4). I also had purchased separately an EVGA GTX 970 FTW ACX 2.0 because I wanted the fans on the GPU to be able to completely stop at low GPU loads, so I spec'd only the AMD R7 240 for the GPU. My processor was locked and my GPU was being replaced so I did not opt for any overclocking. Also, I was happy to find out the slot-loading Blu-ray writer was the Panasonic UJ-265, which has BD-XL capabilities not advertised on DS's website (important for possible future compatibility with UHD media).

Here is a comparison on new (on the left) and old (on the right):



The Bolt II is actually slightly deeper by around 1" than my ΞΌATX case (Silverstone Grandia GD05), but it is also around 1" shorter in height (when laying on its side on the feet) and the same width.

I first went through the chassis and made sure all of the connections were seated correctly. While I was in there I re-routed some of the cables to my liking (there was one in particular routed through the 8.1 mm spacing behind the radiator that I moved to another area of the chassis to give the radiator more exhaust room). I noticed my RAM was upgraded to DDR3-1866 from the spec'd 1600MHz (sweet), but also I was missing a screw on the storage drive cage (more on that later). After that I got it up and running with all ordered components, no problem (obviously I had installed my SSD to install the O/S on; there was no mounting for SSDs in the drive cage, but after talking with DS, they sent me some 3.5"-to-2.5" drive adapters which I've mounted my SSD on). After that I replaced the GPU with my 970 FTW; again, no problems.













I did run into an issue with the motherboard not detecting Intel LAN controller on the board (this is an ASUS issue, not a DS one). I was able to get wireless connectivity, but could not detect the on-board Ethernet. I tried to trouble-shoot the problem by downloading the drivers from ASUS' webpage, but that did not work, either. However, DS tech support to the rescue, working with Mike, he got me the I218-V controller drivers directly from Intel and manually pointed the installer to load from the extracted files ...very much a headache averted. So, even though I know my way around a computer quite well, I'm am definitely not a fan of system administration and the premium paid for this system that comes with this level of support is absolutely worth it (and saved me from having a massive headache from banging my head on the desk too much). This actually happened twice as I had to re-install the whole system after I added a Trusted Platform Module (which you can see jammed right next to the swivel barbs on the H100i CPU cooler in the picture above looking down on the motherboard) to fully encrypt my SSD.   He additionally was able to help me with a boot prioritization issue I had, where the problem was rooted in a buried sub-menu. I hadn't used UEFI before and this was unfamiliar territory they were able to help me out with. Mike mentioned that they can send me a Digital Storm branded cover for my H100i, which I'm waiting on, but am in no hurry to change (just gives the machine a nicer aesthetic).

As I mentioned above, one of the screws on the drive cage was missing. DS sent me some screws along with the 3.5"-to-2.5" adapter plates and I attempted to fasten the missing screw. However, the threads on the case were not good and after talking with DS customer support, they offered to have the system shipped back to them so they could remedy the issue and they also offered an alternative compensation. I opted for the alternative compensation as it was quite attractive in my opinion. I did go find a good hardware store and bought an M3 tap and proceeded to ream the hole. You can see in the pic with the cover off looking at the motherboard that I was successful in getting the screw in and perfecting the fit and finish.



A minor concern of mine is that the radius of curvature of the hoses on the H100i are so tight, they are becoming out-of-round (you can see this on the pic looking at the back with the cover off). However, this machine has been on the market for a while, I'm sure with several running hotter overclocked processors, and I would think DS would have pulled the Bolt II or redesigned it if there were any issues resulting from this. Besides, I've see designs where flattening around bends for fluid flow was done intentionally: http://www.micronexhaust.com/store/prodserpent.htm. Also, if this does become a problem down the road, a couple simple coil springs wrapped around the hoses may help solve any issue.

Another concern is with the fans. The fans do not seal up well to the radiator and there is a lot of leakage in the gaps, especially in the area between the two fans. This is highly detrimental to the static pressure the fans are designed to create. For more effective cooling, this should be remedied. And while I understand the use of the SP-120 fans they have because they only have 3-pin headers on the Digital Storm Thermal Management Control Board, PWM fans can get to even lower operational speeds, reducing noise further than they can with voltage regulation (provided motor noise does not become significant).

As for low noise in my system, I am very pleased with how this machine came out. I swapped the GPU to the GTX 970 FTW with ACX 2.0 cooler as I already mentioned. I also added a fan header splitter on one of the motherboard ports and drove the fans from the motherboard instead of the H100i. This was recommended on the Corsair forums, as some users had had issues with fans connected to the H100i. It also allowed me to take advantage of ASUS' ability to stop the fans with the CPU at low temperatures. The H100i is a very short loop for a water cooler (yet still has enough for substantial thermal capacity) which makes it so I'm not so concerned about the delayed transient temperature swings, as they won't be very large. So, for almost all light loads, including web browsing and watching videos, the only fan running on the machine is the small 40mm fan on the PSU. This sounds like a quiet refrigerator and is a highly directional sound that can be readily diffused. I will be looking for a couple fans in the future to replace the SP-120's; right now I'm hoping the MassDrop for the Nidec Servo 2150RPM fans with PWM happens: https://www.massdrop.com/vote/nidec-servo-gentle-typhoon-d1225c-high-performance-caseradiator-fan-formerly-dis.

Overall, I am very happy with my Bolt II. It is extremely quiet, especially compared to my previous computer. I am able to play ACU at 1080p with high levels of detail and I've play a couple of other games at 2160p with the highest settings (except for anti-aliasing, which I've kept at 2x/FXAA). Working with a 2160p60 screen is awesome...I can have many windows open up on the screen in front of me and jump between them...it's essentially like having four 1080p screens to work on. I definitely look forward to using it for the years to come!

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Edited by  - 12 Dec 2014 at 9:25am
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  Quote ArkansasWoman777 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 5:27am
"Captain Sirius Black"
Storm Trooper
i5 3570k

Ordered: 11-27-12
Stage 1: 11-29-12
Stage 2: 12-2-12
Stage 3: 12-2-12
Stage 4: 12-4-12
Stage 5: 12-4-12
Stage 6: 12-10-12
Stage 7: 12-12-12
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 9:38am
Excellent review and the pics are top notch.   Strong

Enjoy.  Big%20Smile
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 10:01pm
Thanks! The cameras on the Nokia Lumia's do a really good job and are truely the best cameras on phones right now. I was having a hard time controlling the flash at such a short distance, which is why some of them are shot without a flash and have a yellow cast from the room lighting as a result.

And I forgot to mention that I was able to fit the back-plate on the GTX 970. You can see that the card is pushed as far over as possible to make space for the extra thickness on the back of the card. While I was attaching the back-plate, I did notice the fan connector on the board; it is a single four pin connector with two wires, one for each fan, coming out of the connector. I initially thought that the fans were independently controlled because I saw one spinning at one time and another spinning at another time, with the other fans stopped. I now realize that EVGA is pushing the lower limits on the minimum PWM fan speed the fans can physically handle.
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 8:52pm
I am creating a project log of an upgrade to a custom water cooling loop and other component changes on the Small Form Factor forum. A lot of very technically minded/inclined individuals over there and should generate some good discussion.
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jan 2016 at 11:47pm
Very nice. Looking forward to seeing the changes to the Bolt II in your SFF thread. Noticed you didn't change the CPU cover.Awesome
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 12:02am
I haven't yet taken a picture with the DS CPU cover on it yet...that will happen soon. I am going to do a small test of some thermal interface materials and will snap a few pics then
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 4:18am
Very interesting.    I like it.

Is this a modding task for the pure fun of it, or are you looking for performance improvements?

Looking forward to your findings.   
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 8:16am
I don't expect much of a performance gain initially. I have a locked Haswell processor, so there isn't much to gain there. Later on, when I look to update the platform, that is when I can look to see a performance gain with this.
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2016 at 8:27am
Got it. Big%20Smile
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 05 Jan 2016 at 11:23pm
Checking fitment of some of the components

Swiftech PWM D5 with EK XTOP Revo D5 pump top...tight fit



PWM Gentle Typhoon fans on Hardware Labs Nemesis 240GTS radiator



It looks like I will have to create a new bracket and shift the radiator up a little, but it looks like it will move the fans into areas of better airflow in the perforations on the door



P.S. Hoserator, DS pump cover in the pics

Edited by  - 05 Jan 2016 at 11:24pm
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 1:12am
Very nice Awesome.  Tight fit is a little understated, any room for hoses?Smile
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 2:46am
I will be using 12mm ID/16mm OD PETG hardline tubing. I will initially have a layout similar to what DS offered to customers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGzF40hDklI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbhvPSq9BM8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVUtp4Zy1mU

When I start adding new components to the computer, the loop will change some, incorporating the GPU and other components into it.

At the onset of planning for this upgrade, I was thinking of using a DDC pump like what DS did. I had planned to have the radiator flipped and in the loop right before the pump to reduce the propensity for cavitation on the low pressure side of the pump impeller. But, I later changed the pump to a D5, which cools itself by dumping it's heat into the water it is pumping, and went back to a layout akin to the DS setups.
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Jan 2016 at 2:54am
Looks like fun.

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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 8:33pm
Small little update: I got some parts in for the filter. The filter I went with was the Barrow acrylic one. It comes with 3 flat stainless steel screens of various hole sizes. I wanted to go with the Koolance unit with the larger curved screen to reduce pressure loss, but I don't have the space for it where I want this to end up.

So, I figured I'd make a new screen for this filter. I found some brass pipe screens online and ordered them sight unseen. Luckily, they have similar hole size to the middle stainless mesh that came with the Barrow unit. The brass has better galvanic compatibility with the rest of the system over the stainless, as well.

First I formed a dome with a couple brass screens. The dome will increase surface area and allow for a little better flow. It should also direct any trapped debris to the side of the vessel to keep the flow clear.





Then I put a flange on the screen.



I then cut the flange to size and fit it into the acrylic part. I botched my first attempt, so this is the second try.



And here it is with one of the fittings on the end.



Waiting for more parts to arrive, but coming along little by little.
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 2:25am
Nice job and inventive.   Thanks for the updates.    
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 3:06am
Fantastic. I have distant memories of using those brass screens........for filtering.Wink
That is a very nice job of adapting. Nothing like doing it yourself. Awesome


Edited by hoserator - 21 Jan 2016 at 3:07am
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jan 2016 at 10:43pm
So lately my fans have been ramping up pretty high. I thought the hose in the AIO was buckling too much and restricting flow through the unit. I took my computer and laid it out, with the raditor in a position where the hoses were pretty straight and would not restrict flow.

I ran both Prime95 and Furmark simultaneously to stress the CPU and iGPU (no discrete GPU) to put as much heat. The processor temperature quickly rose and began throttling. I took off cold plate/pump of the H100i and the thermal paste was very crusty. I then cleaned off the old thermal paste (probably the stuff that comes pre-coated on the H100i) with isopropyl alcohol from both the cold plate and the processor ... it took a fair amount of elbow grease to get it well cleaned. The thermal interface material is very important in the transfer of heat from the chip to the cold plate on the cooler.



I had gotten some Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut thermal paste. This thermal paste test was one of the most complete and thorough tests I had come upon. The Kryonaut was the best non-gallium based (liquid metal) thermal paste on the list. Gallium is a better conductor and will out-perform any thermal paste, but is conductive (need to be careful about where it spreads, although the integrated heat spreader on the CPU isolates most of the problem areas; GPU's on the other hand do not have a heat spreader and there are exposed circuitry immediately surround the the chip), it needs to be regularly reapplied, and it is difficult to clean up after it has been used. The issue with the overclocking.guide test is that it was conducted and written by "der8auer." der8auer happens to be a professional overclocker who is sponsored by Thermal Grizzly, so you can now see there is somewhat of a conflict of interest. Never-the-less, the test was done in a quantitative manner with a good procedure, so I decided to give it a shot.

The paste comes in an applicator with a couple applicator tips. They instruct you to use the tips to spread a thin layer the paste on over the entire surface of the heat spreader. In practice, the paste has a fairly high viscosity to it so it will 'pull' some of the paste you had already put down if you drag the applicator nearby it, so it is difficult to get a very consistently thin layer. After working it some, you can get a good distribution of the paste, but it isn't the prettiest of methods.

After I got the cold plate and pump securely fitted back on the board, I fired it up again. There is no curing time required for the Kryonaut thermal paste which is nice, so you can get immediate results. Running Prime95 and Furmark again, the temperatures topped out at 43Β°C over ambient and the fans only got up to just above 1000RPM at their highest, usually staying below 900RPM during the test, which is quite quiet.

Overall, this thermal paste is performing pretty well. It does cost a bit and there are a few new competitors on the market. Cooler Master just came out with their MasterGel Maker Nano where they point to some tests where their product comes out ahead (of course). But these pastes are all performing pretty well, so the cost may be the biggest deterrent. If you want to go with the absolute highest performing stuff, look at the gallium liquid metals; there are some containerized versions from Indigo Xtreme that have easier clean-up, but are even more expensive. End of the day it is sure nice to have a quiet, cool-running computer

Edited by  - 31 Jan 2016 at 10:45pm
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 3:04am
Interesting. Thanks for the update.   

Curious... Haven't heard of problems with the stock paste in some time and was wondering if it dried out from previous stress tastings, if you did it several times, or just a bad batch/ apply.    



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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 5:01am
Excellent write up and detail throughout. Thank you for your time and posting.Awesome
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 7:19am
And here I was thinking I was all fancy with my MX-4 Big%20Smile

Thanks for the write up on gallium liquid metals, I know of them but hadn't actually read an application story before.
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by bprat22

Interesting. Thanks for the update.   

Curious... Haven't heard of problems with the stock paste in some time and was wondering if it dried out from previous stress tastings, if you did it several times, or just a bad batch/ apply.


I was surprised, as well. Not quite sure why it was the case. I wasn't running stress test s regularly, and this is only an 84W TDP part.

Originally posted by Tidgxor

And here I was thinking I was all fancy with my MX-4

Big%20SmileThanks for the write up on gallium liquid metals, I know of them but hadn't actually read an application story before.


The paste I used wasn't one of the gallium based ones. This is one of the highest rated non-gallium pastes out there, though.
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Feb 2016 at 2:49pm
Reading comprehension fail on my part! Oops

Still, thanks for the informative write up!
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Feb 2016 at 10:05pm
I got down to my friends place today. He has a drill press and experience working with acrylic. I needed to get an outlet in the front face of the pump top in order to not have a ridiculous amount of angled brass fittings.

First, we got the pump top secured and aligned to where we were going to drill it:



We used a graphite/alcohol spray lubricant and sequentially moved from small to larger drill bit sizes to prevent any brittle shattering of the acrylic. We had also affixed an ice pack to the underside of the drill press table to try to extract as much heat away as possible (acrylic isn't very thermally conductive, so it probably didn't help too much).



Here it is with the final hole drilled in it before we tapped it:



Here is the final form of the top with the tapped outlet. We slightly marred the top with an aluminum piece we used to keep the tap vertical when reaming out the threads.



I need to do another cleaning pass to get the graphite completely removed from the part. Carbon is at the opposite end of the galvanic scale from copper, so it is not good at all to mix them.

Edited by  - 07 Feb 2016 at 10:36pm
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 3:01am
A+++.

Never tried drilling and tapping acrylic. That is a real great display of how to do it.  Excellent craftsmanship. Congratulations.
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 8:06am
Looks great, I've worked with acrylic before, but never for a PC. Big%20Smile

Strong


Edited by Tidgxor - 08 Feb 2016 at 8:06am
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 11:23am
Nice work.  I've had limited experience drilling and cutting acrylic and suffice it to say, acrylic is not my friend.   HahahaBig%20Smile 
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2016 at 4:48pm
Thanks guys! Luckily my friend had dealt with acrylic plenty, so it wasn't too much of a concern. We erred on the side of caution and were fairly careful when drilling and tapping with plenty of lubricant/coolant, even using a scrap aluminum plate we tapped to guide in the tap vertically into the acrylic (sorry I didn't get a pic of it...we were in a rush to get it finished before Super Bowl parties).

A word of caution when using the graphite/alcohol: it is not water soluble, so make sure you have plenty of alcohol around for cleaning.

Edited by  - 08 Feb 2016 at 4:49pm
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FrankW View Drop Down
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  Quote FrankW Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2016 at 5:26am
Good job on drilling the acrylic. I can't think of a more messy lubricant than graphite.    

I have done a lot of machining but not with acrylic. If anyone is thinking about doing a similar project you might find this article interesting.

Frank

Drilling Acrylic

Edited by FrankW - 09 Feb 2016 at 5:26am
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 May 2017 at 4:45pm
It's been a while since I last posted an update. I got busy with stuff and moved my computer into an S4-Mini. But, I'm now back at building out the Bolt II.

In my latest parts fitting, I have stuck a cold plate for a 3.5" HDD where the 1U PSU used to be, connected directly with the outlet I drilled and tapped in the pump top.



More to come...
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 May 2017 at 5:32pm
Awesome, it's been a pleasure to follow along with your Bolt II modifications! Almost makes me feel guilty for doing nada to my Bolt I. LOL

Look forward to seeing what you have in store.
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  Quote ο‘ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 May 2017 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by Tidgxor

Awesome, it's been a pleasure to follow along with your Bolt II modifications! Almost makes me feel guilty for doing nada to my Bolt I.Β LOLLook forward to seeing what you have in store.


I barely have enough room to do modifications in the Bolt II...I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to mod up a Bolt I   

I'll try not to keep you waiting too much longer...desirable parts are finally coming out...fingers crossed that a 6+-core Coffee Lake processor shows up sooner than later.
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 May 2017 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by 

Originally posted by Tidgxor

Awesome, it's been a pleasure to follow along with your Bolt II modifications! Almost makes me feel guilty for doing nada to my Bolt I.Β LOLLook forward to seeing what you have in store.


I barely have enough room to do modifications in the Bolt II...I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to mod up a Bolt I   
.


Building a ship in a bottle comes to mind.   

I also like reading and seeing the mods develop.   
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  Quote oldlady RPGer Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 18 May 2017 at 3:02pm
I can't help it ........Coffee Lake? Will it go in my KeuRIG?      Or is it the famous Lake Tanganyika Coffee beans?

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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 18 May 2017 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by oldlady RPGer

I can't help it ........Coffee Lake? Will it go in my KeuRIG?


LOL
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