Feedback on Civ6/Chess Analysis RigPost Date: 2016-06-20 |
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Topic: Feedback on Civ6/Chess Analysis Rig Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 9:14pm |
Budget:
I am trying to stay under $3,000, but if it ends costing a bit more that’s fine too. Expectations: I need a fast, multicore processor that hopefully will not be completely obsolete in a couple of years (I know that the cpu I've selected is already two years old). Usage: Aside from basic usage like web browsing, office applications, etc, I will mostly use this rig to play Civilization 6 (to be released in October!) and, most importantly, for chess analysis using chess engines like Houdini, Stockfish and Komodo, all of which will utilize as many cores as you can throw at them. Special Needs: I need a CPU with as many cores as possible, but because the I7-6950x is ridiculously overpriced and because I don’t want to mess with Xeon builds, I opted for the i7-5960x, which has performed incredibly well in several chess benchmarks. It is important that the CPU can be overclocked to something close to 4.50GHz. The CPU will be running for hours at a time at 100% analyzing chess positions, which is why I have made cooling a high priority in this built. The next most important thing is sufficient RAM for the chess engines’ hash tables. I know that DDR4 is recommend and at least 16GB, but aside from that I am not sure if the more the expensive Corsair Dominator will make a big difference. I am also not sure if the Asus X-99 A II will be good enough for my overclocking needs. And I think I might have gone overboard on the PSU. I went through all the major online custom PC builders (including one that I've ordered my PCs from since 2006), but most did not allow me to get the exact configuration I wanted. DS looks awesome and if this works out, I think I'll stick around. Because I live in Hawaii, I am a little worried about shipping. Do they properly package everything so that my PC will arrive in one piece? Thank you all in advance for answering my many questions and providing feedback on my configuration. I really value your opinion. Configuration Code: 1439436 Specifications: Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Corsair Carbide Quiet 400Q Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 5960X 3.0GHz (8-Core) (Extreme Performance) Motherboard: ASUS X99-A II (Intel X99 Chipset) (Up to 4x PCI-E Devices) System Memory: 32GB DDR4 2666MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX (Extreme-Performance) Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX1000i (Digitally Controlled Power) Expansion Bay: - No Thanks Optical Drive: External USB - DVD/CD 8x Multi-Drive (Writes and Reads DVDs, CDs) Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (512GB Samsung 850 PRO) Storage Set 2: - No Thanks Storage Set 3: - No Thanks RAID Config: - No Thanks RAID Card: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce GTX 970 4GB (VR Ready) Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio HPC Processor: - No Thanks Extreme Cooling: H20: HydroLux LITE: Integrated Cooling System (CPU Only) HydroLux Tubing Style: Flexible Tubing (Requires HydroLux Liquid Cooling System) HydroLux Fluid Color: White Fluid (Requires HydroLux Liquid Cooling System) Cable Management: Premium Cable Management (Strategically Routed & Organized for Airflow) Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: - No Thanks Airflow Control: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Noise Reduction: - No Thanks LaserMark: - No Thanks Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU - Up to 4.4GHz (Depends on Cooling and Motherboard) Boost Graphics Card(s): - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (64-Bit Edition) Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD) Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value) Office: - No Thanks Game: - No Thanks Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks Branded Gear: - No Thanks Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement) |
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 9:49pm |
I believe your Civ6 is manily cpu based, from my understanding Houdini will peg all your cores and use them so maybe you want to go with 10 core and best oc you can get with a good vcore.
I think you need that much ram for Houdini if I'm not mistaken maybe more but again I'm not sure. You can bring your psu to a 750w if you gonna stay single gpu, you can go to a higher gpu like the 1080 but you don't want to go sli on 750w. Here you go Ticket# 1439453 --- $3,590.00 (To see this build click here) Copy of Specifications: Chassis Chassis Model: Digital Storm Apollo (Black) Core Components Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 6950X 3.0GHz (10-Core) (Extreme Performance) Motherboard: ASUS X99-A II (Intel X99 Chipset) (Up to 4x PCI-E Devices) System Memory: 32GB DDR4 2666MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series Power Supply: 750W EVGA SuperNOVA Storage / Connectivity Optical Drive: External USB - DVD/CD 8x Multi-Drive (Writes and Reads DVDs, CDs) Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (256GB Samsung 850 PRO) Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Graphics / Multimedia Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce GTX 970 4GB (VR Ready) Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio Digital Storm Engineering Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Noctua NH-D15 (Extreme Performance) HydroLux Tubing Style: - Not Applicable, I do not have a custom HydroLux liquid cooling system selected HydroLux Fluid Color: - Not Applicable, I do not have a custom HydroLux liquid cooling system selected Cable Management: Premium Cable Management (Strategically Routed & Organized for Airflow) Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Digital Storm TwisterBoost Technology Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU - Up to 4.4GHz (Depends on Cooling and Motherboard) Software Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (64-Bit Edition) Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD) Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value) Accessories / Goodies Customer Care Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement) I know you said ten core was too expensive but I wanted to get your thoughts, if you still don't like it then simply change the cpu back to the 8 core. Edited by DST4ME - 20 Jun 2016 at 9:50pm |
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DS Veteran Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1674 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 10:06pm |
Your chess programs apparently can utilize dual Xeon CPU computer architectures. So, if you look at the Aventum 3 Pro in Workstations (instead of Desktops), you will see that DS does supply dual socket computers...but I wouldn't recommend an Aventum 3 case. I would suggest you call up DS and see if you could configure a dual socket computer in an off-the-shelf case that doesn't cost over $1k itself.
Anandtech had pointed out that you can get much more computer power in a dual-socket configuration, but your software needs to support it (in your case, it does). http://www.anandtech.com/show/10337/the-intel-broadwell-e-review-core-i7-6950x-6900k-6850k-and-6800k-tested-up-to-10-cores DST4ME is correct in that the 750W PSU is all you need. I'm not sure how important error-corrected memory is for you, but that might be another thing to consider...Xeon processors would be required for that (no overclocking the Xeons, though). Edited by - 20 Jun 2016 at 10:07pm |
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 10:19pm |
If you don't mind going dual socket that is the best option for the computing.
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 10:30pm |
Thank you for the suggestions, DST4ME. I was really excited about the 6950, but the price Intel is asking is simply too much. I’ve been reading around in the chess computer forums, and found that many there think that the 5960 is still the best choice for chess. So my main concern right now is to make sure that my configuration will enable me to overclock the 5960. I was surprised to see that you replaced the HydroLux Lite in my configuration with the Noctua. Do you think it would be possible overclock either one of these two processors with the Noctua?
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 11:02pm |
Many computer chess enthusiasts use dual Xeon machines (thanks for that suggestion). But there is an issue with diminishing returns due to increasing overhead on 20+ core Xeon setups. Having less cores, but being able to run them at higher frequencies can yield better performance (see the benchmark here https://sites.google.com/site/computerschess/stockfish-chess-benchmarks). The key for me is whether I can overclock this cpu reliably at 4.50GHz. I also don’t intend to do chess 24/7. It’s just a hobby (I am a master level player trying to improve my game with the help of the computer), but I will also do a fair share of regular computing tasks (and playing civ 6!). So I am trying to stay away from anything too exotic.
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DS Veteran Joined: 28 Oct 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1674 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 11:03pm |
If you're going to try to overclock the processor as much as you can, liquid cooling is the way to go. I haven't seen any tests of the Swiftech Apogee XL2 that comes with the H320 X2 yet, but hopefully it performs much better than the dreadful Apogee XL (you want the water block to be able to bring the CPU temperature down to as close to ambient temperature as possible).
As far as the motherboard goes, the X99-A II should be good for anything above ambient temperatures. You'd want the Rampage boards for going sub-zero (e.g. Liquid Nitrogen or Single Stage Compressors). |
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2016 at 11:11pm |
Noctua is a great cooler, its upto par with some lc systems.
Yes you can oc either cpu with nocuta to stage 1, above that you need to think about vcore with your 24/7 use specially. From what I have seen you should be able to get 4.2-4.3GHz oc with a vcore below 1.4 with noctua. Higher oc you gonna want better mobo, cooling and your vcore will endup higher above 1.4. but feel free to go with the original lc system you picked. If their forums are saying 5960 is the best bang for the buck and they are saying that based on the numbers then go with 5960. Edited by DST4ME - 20 Jun 2016 at 11:13pm |
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 12:05am |
Thank you both. The overclocked chess engine benchmarks for the 6950 aren’t available yet, so it’s not clear how much better it performs than the 5960. But the gains will likely be too small to justify the additional expense. Plus, as the excellent AnandTech article makes clear, Intel doesn’t really have any way to justify the price hike—they are doing it just because they can.
I am intrigued by the Noctua, but how do you think it will compare to the HydroLux Lite? Is it worth the $150 difference in price? Is the HydroLux Lite as awesome as it looks? |
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 12:32am |
From what I'm seeing there is about 5 degree difference between noctua 15 and H320 X2:
and noctua is about 4 decibels more quiet Now that is with a 4770 and not this cpu which is different but for a oc of 4.2 - 4.4 noctua will do great. However if you want to push it passed that then I suggest HydroLux pro. |
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 1:07am |
5 degrees doesn't make such a big difference. I will read a bit more about the Noctua. Great suggestion--thanks.
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 1:12am |
Again keep in mind that is a 4770, the cpu we are talking about is going to be different but honetly around the 4.2 to 4.4GHz range I expect around the same results and not a huge difference.
However above 4.4GHz you will start seeing the difference. You can alway add a third fan to it for better cooling so that you have 2 x 140mm and 1 x 120mm fans on it, instead of the stock two fans. Have a look at it here |
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 1:41am |
There is a lot of info on overclocking the 5950x on a noctua. Here is a video essentially confirming what you've said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2udy9ELRLc
Going to sleep on this and think about it some more tomorrow. Thanks for all the advice! |
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Jun 2016 at 1:58am |
Our pleasure and good luck
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 10:10am |
Hi again,
Thank you all for your support with my first build. I have taken the advice to heart and made some considerable changes. I’ve decided to go with the I7-6950x, despite the price. I plan on overclocking this processor. Here are a couple of questions that have come up: 1) Regarding the overclock, will I be able to get Intel’s tuning protection plan AFTER I purchase this system? 2) Regarding the boot drive, I couldn’t resist to try out the Samsung 950 PRO (NVM Express). Will there be any problems using this as my boot drive? Will I see any performance boost in Windows? And most importantly (and this is where my lack of technical expertise will probably show), will the Samsung 950 PRO cause any problems with the overclocked 6950? I’ve read that these M.2 drives use the same resources (PCI Express lanes?) as the CPU and one person in the comments section was complaining that this caused problems with overclocking and that people would be better off going with the 850 PRO. What is your take on this? Thanks! Configuration Code: 1440979 Specs: Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Digital Storm Apollo (Black) Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 6950X 3.0GHz (10-Core) (Extreme Performance) Motherboard: ASUS X99-DELUXE II (Intel X99 Chipset) (Up to 4x PCI-E Devices) System Memory: 32GB DDR4 2666MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series Power Supply: 850W EVGA SuperNOVA Expansion Bay: - No Thanks Optical Drive: External USB - DVD/CD 8x Multi-Drive (Writes and Reads DVDs, CDs) Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (512GB Samsung 950 PRO) (NVM Express) (Extreme Performance) Storage Set 2: - No Thanks Storage Set 3: - No Thanks RAID Config: - No Thanks RAID Card: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce GTX 1070 8GB (NVIDIA Founders Edition) (VR Ready) Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio HPC Processor: - No Thanks Extreme Cooling: H20: HydroLux LITE: Integrated Cooling System (CPU Only) HydroLux Tubing Style: Flexible Tubing (Requires HydroLux Liquid Cooling System) HydroLux Fluid Color: White Fluid (Requires HydroLux Liquid Cooling System) Cable Management: Premium Cable Management (Strategically Routed & Organized for Airflow) Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: - No Thanks Airflow Control: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Noise Reduction: - No Thanks LaserMark: - No Thanks Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU - Up to 4.4GHz (Depends on Cooling and Motherboard) Boost Graphics Card(s): - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (64-Bit Edition) Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD) Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value) Office: - No Thanks Game: - No Thanks Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks Branded Gear: - No Thanks Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement) |
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db188
DS Veteran Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 1:21pm |
each pcie device (gpu, internet, enterprise storage, etc.) has its own 2-way concurrent communication with the Host (root complex). you're only limited when it comes to the number/and config of these devices that can be supported in how many lanes the cpu supports and how the mobo allocates them. for instance, populating an m.2 slot might be configured to share/disable one of the pcie x16 slots (the pcie_3 slot in the case of your mobo selection). overclocking the cpu can only lead to increased speed and less bottlenecking between the devices. Gen3 PCIe is capable of over 15GB/s@x16 throughput of data transfer. you're not going to saturate that with a couple of gpu and one pcie storage device.
we discussed this particular mobo in another thread and came to the conclusion that by sharing bandwidth with the pcie 3rd slot this makes sli problematic as you wouldn't be able to use the typical configuration (1st and 3rd slots for x2 sli) in conjunction with the m.2 slot populated. it's unclear to me how Asus handles this. perhaps a call in to them or DS staff can clarify since they're using this board? i will say that the couple of reviews that i read on this board the issue never came up and the board was lauded over for its connectivity options. Edited by db188 - 23 Jun 2016 at 1:32pm |
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Aventum 3
I7-6700K Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT 16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz Corsair Hx1000i 1000W Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR Gigabyte M28U 4K |
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matzo
Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 1:29pm |
Thank you db188. Since I plan on having only one gpu, I probably shouldn't have any problems.
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db188
DS Veteran Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 1:39pm |
that board does come with a m.2 pcie slot adapter card that allows you to connect via one of the other pcie slots w/o having to use the 3rd slot for traditional m.2 connectivity. you would just mount the Samsung 950 Pro to the adapter card and slot it into a pcie x16 slot like you would another graphics card.
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Aventum 3
I7-6700K Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT 16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz Corsair Hx1000i 1000W Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR Gigabyte M28U 4K |
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db188
DS Veteran Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 1:50pm |
there's some confusion between reviewers whether or not the "sli switch" board feature allows the user to configure the x16 slots or if it just highlights which slots are used in 2, 3, or 4-way configs. it would make since that it is user configurable with the number of options for configuring devices. i don't have the board so i can't confirm either way.
from one reviewer: "SLI-CFX Switch This switch allows the user to specify which slots are used for multi-GPU configuration – 2-way or 3-way. There is also a handy LED indicator built into the PCIe latches which highlights which slots are enabled (Lighting demonstration can be seen below)." ok, reading further it looks like you can either do 2xsli in x16/x16 config (occupying slots 1&3); you won't be able to use the m.2 slot in this config; or you can use slots 2,4 and 5 at x8/x8/x8; in which case slot 3 will be available for the m.2 to be populated. Edited by db188 - 23 Jun 2016 at 1:57pm |
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Aventum 3
I7-6700K Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT 16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz Corsair Hx1000i 1000W Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR Gigabyte M28U 4K |
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DST4ME
DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2016 at 3:25pm |
No with one gpu you are going to be fine and so is your oc |
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