Help me build my new monsterPost Date: 2010-09-20 |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply
Topic: Help me build my new monster Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 8:32pm |
I'm new to the forum & to Digital Storm. I'm a software developer who is also addicted to FlightSim. I'm replacing my ancient (2003) Gateway WinXP box. I'm trying to follow the marvelous guidelines offered by !ender_, please be patient with my newbie mistakes.
Budget: $2500 (soft) +/- 300 is ok, not including shipping. I have my own monitor, mouse, keyboard, and sound system. My monitor is a recent SamSung 1600x1200. I also have a CH products usb yoke & pedals. My Use: - Every day: Run fsx. I want to run FSX at 20+ fps at full-screen (1600x1280). Heavy programming. I watch videos. Email/Web/Doc prep. - Frequent: Image manipulation/graphic design - Occasional: Video capture/edit Special needs: - Store 400-500G of videos. I generally acquire 150-200G/year - Excessive dust (I have a cigar habit) - Port and run extensive suite of 32bit XP apps - Port and run old (2003) MS Office suite. I do NOT want the "new improved" versions. - Reliability -- I value rock-hard reliability over an extra 10% of performance. - HD backup -- I want raid1 for current failure protection. I want to be able to swap old files to removable HDs for offsite storage. Questions: I'm having trouble getting the configurator to let me say what I want (perhaps it isn't possible). Let my try it in English here: 1. I want to use the expansion bay to swap SDDs between Win and Linux system disks, one for win and one for linux (probably RHEL, but anything that uses yum will do). I think this means two 40G (intel) SDDs, one at a time. 2. I want two 1TB hitachi/seagates for my data storage, configured for raid 1. I need to R/W these from both win and linux, implying NTFS I think. 3. I want to be able to swap my own HDs in and out of the other two bays. I don't need fancy backup software -- I just want to swap 1TB drives in and out. I don't mind shutting down to do so, but hot swapping will be nice if the system can do it. Mostly I just want to avoid having to open up the case and muck around with cables all the time. My current system (WinXP, 3 ghz cpu, 2GB ram, 500GB HD, nvidia AGP 4) runs FS9 at 15-20 fps with no problem. I can't get more than 3-5 fps out of FSX. Now that my current system is finally dying, I want to stretch as far as I can when I replace it. My initial pass at a configuration is at http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=442158. I can't find the recommended "HAF932" chassis, I'm not sure which i7 to pick, and I'm not sure which MOBU to choose. I'm nervous about the 750W power supply, but I really won't need more than one graphics card. Someday, I may add my own Auzen sound card, but I'll try the onboard sound for now. I invite your comments/suggestions, and thank you in advance for you patience and interest. Thx, Tom S. |
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!ender_
DS Veteran Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply Posted: 20 Sep 2010 at 9:44pm |
heres what i suggest, you were pretty close
nitpicks:
id ditch the raid 1, cuts your storage space in half, ive never understood the draw to it, but I've also never lost a hard drive, so i dunno?
id suggest just making a hard copy backup of anything that sensitve
you could use hot swap bays, but you wouldnt need to, plenty of room in 932 for 4 HDDs, you could just dual boot, less hassle.
the config choices:
as the guide says, pick the case you think looks the best, but this rebranded assassin is simply too expensive for me to get behind, so i stick to the 932. it sucks to get the same thing everyone else has, but when something works, theres no reason to argue
definitely get 6gb ram, 3 is below the line that even 32 bit windows can access, 6 isnt required, but its advisable, especially since you can get to 6gb for only $60
definitely, absolutely, unequivocally get the overclock
FSX, to my knowledge, relies more on your cpu speed than any other game, furthermore, its a boost for $0, yes please!
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 9:27am |
Ah, this is very helpful. I hear you on the raid. Seems like a dual-boot is easier.
I think I still want the hot-swap bays on the front, though, so I can swap out the data drives. Is that possible with the 932? Thanks for the configuration mods, this looks like a winner. |
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!ender_
DS Veteran Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 9:48am |
yes, the 932 can do hotswap bays in the front, but just fyi you can easily fit all of the drives inside, i believe it holds 5 or more without taking up your 5.25 front slots
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MagiK
DS Veteran Joined: 25 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1074 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 1:34pm |
Got to agree when it comes to RAID just say no, there are so many better ways to do things without that complication. Just get a large backup drive installed and back it all up to there on a very regular and strict schedule.
Edited by MagiK - 21 Sep 2010 at 1:34pm |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 7:50pm |
Gulp -- ok, it's ordered and passed stage 1.
Here's the configuration as ordered (sorry about the full paste, it's slightly different from the link): System Configuration: Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master HAF 932 Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Quad Core) Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI 3 Edition (Intel X58 Chipset) (Features USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s) (Model: 131-GT-E767) System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested) Power Supply: 750W Digital Storm Certified (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Recommended) Expansion Bay: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (80GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: X25-M MLC Edition) (Extreme Performance) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (1TB Hitachi/Seagate (7200 RPM) (32MB Cache) Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: 1x (1TB Hitachi/Seagate (7200 RPM) (32MB Cache) Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card(s): 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 480 1.5GB (Includes PhysX Technology) Add-on Card: - No Thanks Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: Noctua Dual 120mm Fans High Performance Cooler (Compatible With ONLY i7 Processors) H20 Tube Color: - Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: - No Thanks Enhancements: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Noise Reduction: - No Thanks CPU Boost: FREE: Stage 1: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz (Cooling Upgrade Recommended) Graphics Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Memory Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory OS Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows 7 CD) Virus Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks Benchmarking: - No Thanks Pre-Install Game: Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition (Pre-Install, apply updates, and test gameplay with my system) Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks External Storage: - No Thanks Thanks for the excellent advice, I'll post status updates (and questions) on this thread as things progress. Oh, for what its worth, the price (including shipping) is $2,405 -- just what I was looking for. |
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!ender_
DS Veteran Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 8:08pm |
looks great! i assume youre doing a partitioned 80 instead of 2 40s?
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 21 Sep 2010 at 8:38pm |
Yeah, I've asked them to dual-boot it between Win & Linux (with suitable partitions accordingly).
Since I don't need to swap it, I figured one 80 was better (and slightly cheaper) than two 40s. Fewer components to fail and so on. |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 23 Sep 2010 at 8:06pm |
I've been promoted to stage 5. If anybody at DigitalStormOnline is watching, Zeenat is a *great* telephone sales agent.
BTW, DSO doesn't do Linux installs, so I asked to have the Win system installed in a 34G partition on the SDD, along with a 6G swap partition (the sys has 6G of RAM). I'll do the Linux install myself when I get the new box. So far, I'm very happy. |
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MagiK
DS Veteran Joined: 25 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1074 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 9:07am |
Your swap choice is odd, years ago it was good to have between 1 and 2 x RAM for a swap file, however with modern operating systems you don't need that amount of swap especially if you have a lot of memory...say 6GB or more. I run 12gig in Vista 64 and have no swap file at all. Swap is SLOOOOOOOOOW and you never want your OS to have to page out to disk...which is what swap is. So go big on memory and get rid of the swap. (My opinion, your mileage may vary, past performance does not guarentee future returns etc)
Im not just talking about Windows here, Im a UNIX Engineer and its true for UNIX/Linux as well. Edited by MagiK - 24 Sep 2010 at 9:08am |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 9:20am |
I hear you on the swap partition, my choice is force-of-habit (from years of WinXP thrashing) more than anything else. I already have 6G of RAM, so I think I don't need to worry about swapping anyway.
I figure that I have to re-partition the SSD anyway when I do the CentOS dual-boot, so I can nuke the swap partition(s) then. From your linux background, am I likely to run into any snags installing the CentOS? I'm still sort of hazy about what happens to the Win 7 install when I do this. |
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MagiK
DS Veteran Joined: 25 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1074 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 9:25am |
Sorry I dont have a Linux background I based my comments on HPUX, AIX and Solaris experience, since Linux is based on UNIX it seems likely that the swap issue would be similar. It doesn't hurt to keep a swap file but if you are swapping out you have a problem somewhere. Anyway sorry couldn't help with the CentOS issue.
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Dragoonseal
DS Veteran Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2247 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 10:18am |
Swap on an SSD isn't. Not that mine barely gets used anyway with 6GB of memory. Plus, like you've mentioned before, some apps throw a fit if you don't have one, so I always leave mine on. |
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Lilim
Intel Core i7 920 @4.2GHz HAF 932 - Dual SLI Nvidia GTX 480s 3x Intel X25-M G2 (80GB) SSD RAID0 |
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MagiK
DS Veteran Joined: 25 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1074 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Sep 2010 at 10:46am |
Yeah I will keep it on for those situations but I keep them small 1gb or less.
I wonder just how swap on an SSD matchedup against paging to RAM...never had an SSD yet :) Edited by MagiK - 24 Sep 2010 at 10:47am |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 5:54pm |
I'm still (4 October) waiting to be promoted from stage 5 (testing).
I've asked for a status update, two weeks of testing seems long. Perhaps I'm just impatient, though. Thx, Tom |
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Raif
Senior Member Joined: 07 Nov 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 712 |
Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2010 at 10:51pm |
they may have found a issue, you can always shoot them a e-mail and find out why. hard for me to say i am not there.
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2.5 Ghz Core duo
Nvidia 9500 gt 3 gb 1033 Mhz ram if we can't answer a question shoot a e-mail here. [email protected] |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 7:03pm |
Stage 6 just now, estimated shipment day tomorrow or Thur (10/6-10/7).
Hooray! |
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 7:37pm |
My system SHIPPED this evening. WHOOPEE!!!!
Here, in case anybody cares, is the stage 7 info: Overclocked Processor Settings Processor Speed GHz: 3.9 CPU Multiplier: 22 Voltage CPU VCore: 1.38125 VDroop Control: Yes i7 - BCLK MHz: 179 i7 - Voltage QPI\DRAM: i7 - Voltage QPI\PLL: i7 - Voltage CPU VTT: 175 i7 - Voltage IOH Vcore: i7 - Voltage ICH Vcore: i7 - Voltage IOH/ICH I/O: i7 - PWM Frequency: 780i/790i - Memory Clock Mode: 780i/790i - CPU FSB MHz: 780i/790i - Voltage FSB: 780i/790i - Voltage SPP: 780i/790i - Voltage MCP: Motherboard BIOS: 6774 Video Card Driver: 258.96 Chipset Driver: CD Sound Card Driver: CD |
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maxyme
DS Veteran Joined: 14 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
Quote Reply Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 11:27pm |
pretty much all you need to understand is you have a 3.9 ghz overclock! 4.0ghz is really fast 2ghz is pretty good. thats all i understand from it.
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Steam:pcmaster160
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Raif
Senior Member Joined: 07 Nov 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 712 |
Quote Reply Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 2:52am |
is it me or is that cpu vcore a lil higher then normal?
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2.5 Ghz Core duo
Nvidia 9500 gt 3 gb 1033 Mhz ram if we can't answer a question shoot a e-mail here. [email protected] |
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MagiK
DS Veteran Joined: 25 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1074 |
Quote Reply Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 8:26am |
Yep it has been tweaked up I believe from 1.25..or I could be completely off
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!ender_
DS Veteran Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply Posted: 07 Oct 2010 at 8:36am |
well its up from stock.. but still in a decent range for close to 4gz, every chip is different
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SomervilleTom
Newbie Joined: 20 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 18 |
Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 8:59pm |
Just to wrap this up, my new monster arrived on schedule. Setup was easy and clean, and this machine screams.
I'm still climbing the windows system 7 learning curve (I *hate* Microsoft), and it will take weeks to find and migrate or replace the gazillion tools and accessories I accumulated on the old WinXP box. The system performance is simply awesome. This video card makes my monitor look fabulous, everything happens so quickly that it just feels "snappy". In concrete quantitative terms, the best I could get out of FSX on the old box, even with a plane idling at the gate, was 5-8 FPS. On new box, it LOAFS at 33FPS, no matter WHAT I do. Count me as a VERY satisfied Digital Storm customer, I am very much a happy camper. |
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Alex
Admin Group Digital Storm Supervisor Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 16314 |
Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2010 at 9:24pm |
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BandGap
Newbie Joined: 26 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 47 |
Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 2010 at 2:45am |
Hi Tom,
Congratulations on your new system! I'd like to know how your Linux install goes. Please let us know when you have some time. Thanks. |
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