i5 - Value System Question

I believe mine has a 600 something PSU. I can check when I get home.

I'm sure if they got the GTS 250 to fit the 5850 would fit fine. It's actually 1.5" smaller then the 5870/GTX 285 cards.

I'm interested in the 5850 simply because it offerers better performance then a GTX 285 at the 250$ price point. Uses much less power, smaller form factor to fit in a small case, plus DX11 and such. I think the 5850 will end up being the new GTX 275 if you will.

Maybe once the new nVidia line comes out they will offer something priced similar to the 5850 that surpasses it performance wise? Not sure we will have to wait and see. As it is currently, the 5850 is pretty much the best price/performance card out now.

I do think that buying a 285 or even 275 right now isn't a smart move. The 275 and 5850 are priced very close right now and the 5850 blows it out of the water. You'll get more performance, dx11, less power draw, etc for like 20-30$ more.

To bad DS doesn't offer the new ATI cards yet. Really though, a $250 ATI card out-performing the GTX 285 which is priced around ~$350. It's a really stellar deal right now. A single 5850 will man handle games at 1680x1050 no doubt about it.

By the looks of it, this i5 Value with a 5850 in it would really rock for the price point and it would give some of the i7-920 systems a run for their money.


Edited by ijason - 09 Oct 2009 at 6:49pm

actually a 275 will give you almost the same performance as a 5850 for less , the difference is like 4 fps. with a 285 they are the same but the 285 does cost more and to be honest the 275 is the best option, those 4 fps aren't worth $50.

in cossfire vs 275 sli, you save $100 and will never be able to tell the difference.

you have to remember sli 285 beats sli 275, but you will never be able to tell which is in a system, cause both will give you above 60fps (smooth gaming) at 1900 x 1200, so you can never tell what the system is running, just the same you will never be able to tell the difference between crossfire 5850 and 275 sli.

Edited by DST4ME - 10 Oct 2009 at 10:57am

Well DX11 is gonna be noticed mainly in games, and there are not going to be many games that are gonna be DX11 for the next 12 month, however if DX11 is important to you then yes 5850 would be good but I think the nvidia cards will be better then the current ati cards, so I would rather wait and see what nvidia has before I make my choice.

you can't really future proof anymore, DX12 is right around the corner

Edited by DST4ME - 10 Oct 2009 at 11:03am

Prices will be better also when nvidia drops their cards also, so ya more choices also means better prices.

BTW Wrex, have you confirmed that the PSU is a 600w unit? I know you didn't seem sure. When you get a chance take a look please. Also, I'd like to know the brand that they are using as-well.

seasonic psu
evga mobo
zotac gpu
mushkin ram
wd hdd

Venom, so I understand DS uses a few brands. The 600w is standard though right? Also, will the PSU used have 2 6pin pcie connectors?

I know the GTS 250 only needs one, however, I'm looking to put in a 5850 later myself, that would need 2. So, I'm mainly interested to know if the PSU used could support a 5850.

Perhaps, I wasn't clear myself. I agree with you on the 5850 CF and 275 SLI providing 60+fps in 1900x1200.

However, my thing here was, gaming at 1680x1050, looking for the best single card solution while maintaining price/performance. And that card would be the 5850 currently. We can all go around and cherry pick benchmark reviews, they vary depending on who did the testing and the hardware/software used. Like I had stated, I have seen benchmarks where they where close 4ish frames and also some that they where split by 10-14 frames. The 5850/5870 drivers aren't nearly as mature as the 275/285. So there is room for improvement, the card as it is now has a nice performance bump and shows a little bit more potential is all. It's very hard to argue the fact that the 5850 isn't worth the +30$ extra it will run you over the 275 at this time.

I just don't see a point in recommending the 275 anymore. Looks like you agree since you stated with SLI aside, 5850/5870 are the better cards.

In point, all I was stating was that currently, for single gpu solutions the 5850 is the best bang for buck card right now.



Edited by ijason - 14 Oct 2009 at 5:21pm

Best bang for the buck is the solution that gives you 60fps with all the eye candy, at 1600 x 1200 that is the 275, and at 1900 x 1200 that is the 275 sli, since it cost less and gives you 60fps with all the eye candy.

now for games that don't support sli one gpu solution is obviously only way to go, if you can't get 60fps from a 275 then 5850 is the better solution, otherwise it won't matter.

if DX11 is important to you then the ati card is best for you.

as for benchmarks, I only go with creditable sites, and all creditable sites I'm looking at have them around 4 to 8 fps difference but that difference is above 60 fps which does not make a difference.

at the end the user needs to decide if they want to spend extra $110 on ati for 1900 x 1200. or extra $60 for 1600 x 1200, right now a single 275 goes for $200, a 5850 goes for $259.

Edited by DST4ME - 15 Oct 2009 at 10:36am

calling me a fanboy just because I'm presenting the facts shows your age.

if you don't understand my post then read it again, don't go falsely accusing me of contradicting myself.

now for games that don't support sli one gpu solution is obviously only way to go, if you can't get 60fps from a 275 then 5850 is the better solution, otherwise it won't matter.

now what does that say? it says with games that don't support sli, if a 275 gives you 60fps, then it will not matter if you have a 5850 or a 275, but if the 275 does not give you 60 fps then the 5850 is the best choice.

I see no contradiction there, nor am I a fan boy. sites creditability is not a matter of opinion its a matter of how they do their tests and their creditability based on their own history of test and results.

there are plenty of sites with discounts, you can get a zotac, azus, SPARKLE.

at the end if the gpu gives 60fps with all the eye candy for $60 to $40 less per card then that is the best bang for the buck, if by saying that, makes me an nvidia fan boy then be it, but in this paragraph I didn't name any brands, I just said: at the end if the gpu gives 60fps with all the eye candy for $60 to $40 less per card then that is the best bang for the buck

Edited by DST4ME - 16 Oct 2009 at 12:56pm

Calling you a fan boy because your "presenting the facts" shows my age? Much like you present the "facts" in the majority of your posts where you press your opinions onto others and make it seem like your statements are de facto? Guess that must make you really mature.

I wasn't aware that your the only one able to push your opinion and all others that do so are immature. Nice to know though. ;)

Originally posted by DST4ME Best bang for the buck is the solution that gives you 60fps with all the eye candy, at 1600 x 1200 that is the 275

You claiming the 275 is the best single gpu solution at 1600x1200.

Originally posted by DST4ME if you can't get 60fps from a 275 then 5850 is the better solution

You just stated prior to this that the 275 was the best single gpu solution. So now your saying it may be possible that "the best single gpu in your opinion" might not be able to pull 60fps? So why would you think it is the best? This my fickle friend is a contradiction.

I am also interested to know how you expect your client to know if the 275 can't get them smooth game play? You can't look at benchmarks, even if they have an identical system to the test bench used that doesn't guarantee you will get the same exact frames. So what do you suggest? Hey buy the 275 first man, if sh*t hits the fan, then go return the 275 and grab the ATI? This isn't a circus, it's $30, why make ppl jump through hoops. Just suggest the superior card to begin with.

Originally posted by DST4ME I see no contradiction there, nor am I a fan boy. sites creditability is not a matter of opinion its a matter of how they do their tests and their creditability based on their own history of test and results.

Clearly my site creditability line went over your head. Re-read that and try to understand what I was pointing out. I did not state site creditability was a matter of opinion. lol

Your not a fan boy huh? You know what a fan boy does? A fan boy pushes an inferior card to clients, no matter the facts presented, just in support of a specific company. Your telling someone right now to take a 4-8fps hit on performance. Your telling someone to miss out on further performance as the drivers mature. Your also suggesting for them to skip out on dx11. And to put the cherry on top your claiming they may not get 60fps, and if thats the case, then fine go buy the ati. All this over $30 and your not a fan boy? Quite interesting. You may want to go research a little word called Denial. =)

I will just agree to disagree. I don't further wish to argue this, you want to recommend the 275? Go for it. I don't think thats the best option right now. Clearly we have a difference in opinion. Thats where it will stand.


Edited by ijason - 16 Oct 2009 at 9:32pm

Originally posted by ijason Calling you a fan boy because your "presenting the facts" shows my age? Much like you present the "facts" in the majority of your posts where you press your opinions onto others and make it seem like your statements are de facto? Guess that must make you really mature. I wasn't aware that your the only one able to push your opinion and all others that do so are immature. Nice to know though. ;) Originally posted by DST4ME Best bang for the buck is the solution that gives you 60fps with all the eye candy, at 1600 x 1200 that is the 275 You claiming the 275 is the best single gpu solution at 1600x1200. Originally posted by DST4ME if you can't get 60fps from a 275 then 5850 is the better solution You just stated prior to this that the 275 was the best single gpu solution. So now your saying it may be possible that "the best single gpu in your opinion" might not be able to pull 60fps? So why would you think it is the best? This my fickle friend is a contradiction. I am also interested to know how you expect your client to know if the 275 can't get them smooth game play? You can't look at benchmarks, even if they have an identical system to the test bench used that doesn't guarantee you will get the same exact frames. So what do you suggest? Hey buy the 275 first man, if sh*t hits the fan, then go return the 275 and grab the ATI? This isn't a circus, it's $30, why make ppl jump through hoops. Just suggest the superior card to begin with. Originally posted by DST4ME I see no contradiction there, nor am I a fan boy. sites creditability is not a matter of opinion its a matter of how they do their tests and their creditability based on their own history of test and results. Clearly my site creditability line went over your head. Re-read that and try to understand what I was pointing out. I did not state site creditability was a matter of opinion. lol Your not a fan boy huh? You know what a fan boy does? A fan boy pushes an inferior card to clients, no matter the facts presented, just in support of a specific company. Your telling someone right now to take a 4-8fps hit on performance. Your telling someone to miss out on further performance as the drivers mature. Your also suggesting for them to skip out on dx11. And to put the cherry on top your claiming they may not get 60fps, and if thats the case, then fine go buy the ati. All this over $30 and your not a fan boy? Quite interesting. You may want to go research a little word called Denial. =) I will just agree to disagree. I don't further wish to argue this, you want to recommend the 275? Go for it. I don't think thats the best option right now. Clearly we have a difference in opinion. Thats where it will stand.

I think you have a very keen sense of discernment, ijason.  DST doesn't work for DS, so he's said, but he does have a vast knowledge foundation and he's able to run front-man for DS on these forums, which makes me wonder with all the time spent on these forums, is he really an employee?

Nevertheless, there have been a number of people in the past, including me, that have had a hard time stomaching DSTs persistence to the point of ignorance and simply left these forums.  I decided to keep hanging around with the understanding that DST is very knowledgeable, much more than I, but has a hard time conceding.  He does post charts and displays on much technical information to substantiate what he' saying, but their isn't much room for argument when it comes to trying to explain your opinion to him.  It will always be in the name of helping save the customer money, but it really comes down to the need to be right.

The unfortunate thing about his persistence is that it can make him look like you're describing.  I believe he has the best intentions, I really do, but it's a shame there isn't a more balanced view in the picture that he draws. 

You know, it should be mandatory that all members on these forums have to post their age in their bios.  All the other stuff doesn't matter, but when it comes to having discussions with people, I always like to know what the age group is.  I personally think it makes a difference.  For all we know, and I've been hanging around for now for a couple of years, DST4ME could be a 15 year old looking for approval.  However, DST, I really don't think you're 15.

I think a good balanced perspective and the ability to take a breath and stop before we respond is what we need here.  Sometimes you don't need to defend yourself... in the name of anything.

      

lol

I think you will go crazy trying to decide which card  or CPU will be the best value in the future. Lately, I've been spending too much time in forum's, computer hardware reviews, boutique computer sites and researching various computer configurations just to decide what is the best computer I can buy at a set price. In that 3 months time I've seen 3 i7  intel processor come and go, ATI go from the bottom of the heap to top dog . My solution is learn all you can, ask the right questions and after awhile you will know facts from opinion and conjecture. I've heard it said from regulars on this site and others, buy the best stable rig that you can afford to run your current applications, programs, games that you have today.  A year from now your 2500 dollar rig will yesterdays news and Direct X 15 will be hitting the streets.