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Waiting on GTX 670 4GB - How does the rest look?

Post Date: 2012-05-23

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mrpotatohead1342 View Drop Down
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Waiting on GTX 670 4GB - How does the rest look?
    Posted: 23 May 2012 at 11:18am
Budget:
Roughly $3500 USD for just the PC - Not too concerned if I go a little over

Expectations:
Mostly gaming on at 5760x1080 3 Dell 23" 1920x1080 UltraSharp monitors (Nvidia Surround). Some other things too (see Usage below).

Usage:
BF3, other less intensive games (Starcraft 2, Diablo 3, Portal 2, etc. :-P). Also Skyrim with lots of mods (this is why I'm waiting for the 4GB 670s). Also acting as a media server with Plex, and running Linux for occasional programming/compiling either in VM or dual boot. This will be my primary/only computer. I would like it to be relatively future proof.

Special Needs:
1. 4GB GTX 670s - When will DS get these in stock? I hear that heavily modded Skyrim (all sorts of HD textures) greatly benefits from the extra RAM, and future proofing doesn't hurt.

2. PCI lanes for possible sound card - I'm thinking about the possibility of buying a sound card down the road if the onboard sound doesn't measure up. Would this system (3770k, Z77 Asus Deluxe, 2x GTX 670) have spare PCI lanes for a sound card while still running the GPUs at at least x8/x8 PCI 3.0? I can't find a straight answer for this anywhere online. If not, does DS offer any Z77 mobo that would? I'd rather not move up to X79.

3. LED Fans - I did not add the LED fans to this build as I read on these forums that they are 120mm fans, making them louder/worse than the 200mm stock fans. However, the Noctua NH-D14 is an ugly duck, and I'd like to replace the fans on it with some red LED fans. I'd want them to be the same size/speed as the stock Noctua fans, and to be equally quiet as well. I'd be OK having DS special order them. Can DS do this? If so, I wouldn't mind having them do the same to the other stock case fans. Of course I'd be willing to pay extra for this.

4. Cooling - Does this build have enough cooling? I think it does, just want to make sure.

Saved Ticket #: 691671
Total price including 10% discount: $3322.00

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master 942 HAF X
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 3770K 3.50 GHz (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core) (Requires Z77 Motherboard)
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z77-V DELUXE (Intel Z77 Chipset) (Higher Overclocks and Unique Wi-Fi Features)
System Memory: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 1050W Corsair Pro Silver 1050HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible)
Expansion Bay: Internal Digital Media Card Reader (Black)
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (240GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: 520 Series)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (Model: Black Edition)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB (Includes PhysX)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Extreme Performance
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Stage 2: Overclock CPU 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz (Requires Pro/Deluxe/Sabertooth Motherboard)
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows 7 CD)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: FREE: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Large)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty


This will be my first PC in a while and first gaming PC ever (I've been using a MacBook for a long time and have been gaming on Xbox) so any other tips are appreciated. Is there anything else I haven't covered or should be looking into? Thanks!
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 11:47am
Hi mrpotatohead1342...Welcome to the forums.
 
That build looks great.Big%20Smile
 
The cooling is right on with the D14 cooler. 
 
I think DS will take the LED Performance fans and just replace the ones on the D14.  That is what the picture of the HafX shows.  Ask them to be sure.  But I wouldn't mess with the HafX's case fans.  They're great as-is.
 
The sli 670's will run your 3x monitors but not maxed out with the likes of BF3,but on high it should play smooth.
 
As far as Pcie lanes....With sli and the Z77 mobo, if you add an audio card you go to x8x4x4 pci3.0.   There is only 16 lanes total and the sound card only uses x1 but it does knock the others down.  Can't have more than 16 lanes.
 
The other option would be X79, p67 Extreme or wait for Z77 extreme when and if.  I haven't heard.
 
With pcie 3.0, theroretically, the second cards x4, if you had an audio card, should work at double bandwidth.  So, the x4 is really and x8, if the pci3.0 works as they say. If it works at x8 then it is good to go.  They don't saturate a x8 lane.
 
Here's a link that compares the scaling, basically saying in the real world of gaming a 2.0x8 equals a 3.0x4 within a couple of % points. 
 
It shows 680 which is a 670 for most purposes.
 
Hope this helps and good luck.Big%20SmileBig%20Smile
 
 
 
 


Edited by bprat22 - 23 May 2012 at 12:18pm
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Alex View Drop Down
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 11:52am
mrpotatohead1342,
 
That looks like a great build. For the 4GB GTX 670, we may not carry them as a main option due to lower demand, so you'll have to contact our team and get a quote for us to special order them for you.
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 12:25pm
Thanks for the help guys :-)

bprat22: Ok, so x8/x4/x4 PCI 3.0 seems like it would work. Would my sound card also have to be PCI 3.0? Would a PCI 2.0 sound card slow down the other lanes?

Alex: I will call the team about the 4GB 670s and the LED fans on just the Noctua. Can you say how long the current discounts will be lasting? Should I be looking to accelerate my purchase faster than sometime in the next two weeks? A heads up would be nice if I need to buy this week to save the 10%. :-)
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 12:27pm
Sound card shouldn't matter. 
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  Quote surf71zx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 12:50pm
Digital Storm might have a Memorial Day sale. Just guessing.
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 1:34pm

We might have a sale, no promises. Cool

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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 1:42pm
Guess I'll be ordering on Memorial Day then! Just have to get in touch with the sales team about the custom parts.

Thanks for all your help everybody. I'm looking forward to joining the glorious PC gaming master race!
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 2:49pm
I have been waiting for DS to stock the GTX 670 4GB cards myself.  Looks like I will have to special order too. Smile
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2012 at 3:16pm
ASUS does make Z77 motherboards that are capable of dual 16x, or 16x, 8x, 8x, or quad 8x 3.0 PCIe.  The 1st one is the P8Z77 WS and the 2nd they just released on May 21st and is the P8Z77-V Premium.

Edited by Asangard - 23 May 2012 at 3:17pm
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Therefore, the 1st step on the Holy Warrior path,
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2012 at 11:10am
Quick question - With the internal lighting option, can the LED strips be hooked up to the button on the front that turns the front fan LED on the HAF X on/off? That would be neat. If not it's OK too.

Called the technical team and they said special ordering the 4GB GTX 670s would be no problem. There is a small fee for special orders, but that is all. They said to pick any video card and then put the following in the Special Assembly/Testing Instructions field, just in case anybody else wants to do this too:

"I wish to special order (1 or 2 or however many) of the 4GB GTX 670 cards (in SLI) instead of the video card(s) above."

They will then message you about the extra cost after you place your order.

They also strongly advised against putting the LED fans on the Noctua NH-D14, because they would be significantly louder and less efficient. I think I'm just going to suck it up and go for performance over looks.
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 9:13am
Originally posted by bprat22


As far as Pcie lanes....With sli and the Z77 mobo, if you add an audio card you go to x8x4x4 pci3.0.   There is only 16 lanes total and the sound card only uses x1 but it does knock the others down.  Can't have more than 16 lanes.

bprat22, I did some research on this, and it turns out that the P8Z77-V Deluxe (and presumably other motherboards as well) uses a PLX multiplexing chip to provide extra PCIe 2.0 lanes. The top two x16 and x8 PCIe 3.0 slots are directly connected to the processor, and the other slots (PCIe 2.0 x4 on the bottom in black, and the four x1 slots) are connected to the PLX chip. PCIe 2.0 devices can be attached to those slots without affecting the 16 lanes that the top two slots have access too.

This means that an x1 sound card will not stop the two GPUs from running at x8/x8 PCIe 3.0. I thought this info might be useful for someone in the future.

I'd link you if I could, but I'm new so the forum won't let me post links.
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 10:42am
Thanks for the info.  I'll look into it.  They are changing things real quick in the last couple of months.
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 10:56am
Originally posted by bprat22



Thanks for the info.  I'll look into it.  They are changing things real quick in the last couple of months.


No problem, I figured I can't be the only one who wants to go SLI + sound card on Z77. Hopefully someone will else can benefit from my hours of Googling! :-P
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 11:29am
After lots of hunting, Big%20Smile I still stand by the graphic lanes stuck at 16 total.  The PLX PXE8608 chip doesn't add pci lanes but is a switch to control 8 lanes of Pcie 2.0.  Without the plx chip some ports were disabled when others were in use.  The PLX chip switches pci lanes between the ports in use so all can be used.
 
The PLX PEX 8747 is the one that adds lanes.  I think until you get to the new Z77 Premium mobo you're still stuck at 1x16 or 2x8 or 8x4x4.
 
It is confusing and I'm not 100% but it is fun trying to figure it out. 
 
I'd love Alex to weigh in.  His tech gurus at DS must certainly know for sure.  If I'm wrong then good, it's how we learn.


Edited by bprat22 - 25 May 2012 at 11:40am
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 12:12pm
OK I think I figured it out for sure. Hopefully I can post links now. :-P

Here's the block diagram for the Z77 chipset from Intel (page 3, PDF):
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/z75-z77-express-chipset-brief.pdf

It has the PCIe 3.0 lanes for the GPU connected straight to the processor and the PCIe 2.0 lanes for all the onboard stuff and other PCIe slots connected to the chipset.

This leads me to believe that the PLX PEX8608 in the Deluxe mobo is switching between the chipset PCIe 2.0 lanes and attached stuff like USB, LAN, and WiFi, as documented here:
https://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20120502113408058&board_id=1&model=P8Z77-V+DELUXE&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

Here's some more information, check out post #5 in particular:
http://forums.hardwaresecrets.com/ecs-z77h2-ax/8124

So TL;DR I think we're both right. The newer PLX PEX8747 will switch PCIe 3.0 GPUs attached directly to the CPU and add more lanes for tri-SLI and such. The PLX PEX8608 will switch PCIe 2.0 lanes attached to the chipset and allow for extra add-ons like sound cards, USB cards, etc, while not interfering with the 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 bandwidth for the GPUs.

I would love to hear back from Alex at Digital Storm to confirm this. It's definitely interesting to try and figure it out. I wish ASUS provided better documentation. :-P

Edited by mrpotatohead1342 - 25 May 2012 at 12:16pm
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 12:16pm
Great discussion.  When I get a second, I'll check those links out. 
My head hurtsLOL 
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by bprat22



Great discussion.  When I get a second, I'll check those links out. 
My head hurtsLOL 


Mine too LOL!
I'm pretty close to just calling Asus at this point haha
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 12:37pm
Here is a review by Anandtech covering the P8Z77-V Deluxe board. 
In the review they cover the PLX chip.  They say "In terms of the PCIe, we have a little bit of potential confusion for users and reviewers - in the middle between the PCIe is a PLX chip. This is not the PLX PXE 8747 chip that increases the PCIe lane count - this one on the Deluxe is present to provide extra data transfer access for the various controllers on the motherboard.  This means that the third full length PCIe in black is like many other Z77 boards in that this is a PCIe 2.0 x4, non-GPU port."
 
has a note for the 4 x PCIe 2.0 x1 it is note 4 and reads " The PCIe x1_2 shares bandwidth with SATA6G_E12. SATA6G_E12 is enabled by default for system resource optimization."
 
Also has a note for 1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 (x4 mode, black) *3
3 x PCIe 2.0 x1 
Note 3 reads " The PCIe 2.0 x16 slot shares bandwidth with PCIe 2.0 x1_1 slot, PCIe 2.0 x1_2 slot and PCIe 2.0 x1_3 slot. The PCIe 2.0 x16 slot default setting is in x1 mode. "
 
All this just makes me more confused as ever.Confused
 
What I do know is that the P8Z77 WS motherboard and the new P8Z77-V Premium both support as stated in their spec sheets from ASUS "4 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (dual x16 or x16, x8, x8 or quad x8) ". 
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 12:50pm
LOL  Yep, that's about as clear as mud. 
How hard would it be for Asus or the sites we use,  to spell out excatly what we get with this  scenario of  sli and addons like an audio card?
I still think it's x8x4 with an audio card but I hope I'm wrong.  If the Deluxe could do x8x8 plus an audio card they'd give alot, not all of course,  of its customers no reason to go with the Premium.
 
Oh, well....back to blowing stuff up on my UltraSharp.
 
 
 
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 1:33pm
OK so I called Asus and got an interesting answer. After deliberating among themselves for a while they said that in an SLI and sound card setup the GPUs would run at x8/x8 and the sound card would ALSO run at x8. I asked if this was because the PCIe slot that the sound card was in was multiplexed by the PLX chip and they said yes.

If this is true, I'm guessing this means that the PCIe x1 slots are attached to the PLX chip, and that anything attached to the chip sees the full x8 lanes of PCIe 2.0 bandwidth?

The Asus guy could also be totally off base or thinking of the wrong motherboard, which seems a likely possibility given what we know about the motherboard so far. I think this is probably the case, because he seemed pretty confused about this all too.

Can Digital Storm test this? It would be great to have a definitive answer and they have the distinct advantage of having a ton of parts on hand.
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 2:19pm
I would also like DS to test this on the Z77 Sabertooth board as well.
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 4:08pm
Just got a response from DS and was told both cards would operate in x8 mode with the added sound card.    I was wrong and couldn' t be happier.      How great is DS to respond so quick      What a company.     
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 5:09pm
AWESOME!

I think I'll be adding the Asus Xonar Essence STX to my build then!
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2012 at 5:29pm
bprat22
 
Is that for both the sabertooth and deluxe boards or just the deluxe?
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2012 at 5:48am
Oops  I should've asked when i did about the Deluxe. 
 
I can't find any mention of the PLX Pxe8608 chip being on the Sabertooth.  They brag about it on the Deluxe with all the reviews, but not Sabertooth.
 
Maybe next week, their closed now, I'll do a follow- up inquiry.
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2012 at 6:56am
Thanks.  This is going to make a difference for me as I recently purchased the Sound Blaster Recon 3D Champion.  I installed it in my current DS rig and wow what a difference.  I would prefer the Sabertooth if it can run SLI x8/x8 with the sound card.

Edited by Asangard - 26 May 2012 at 11:16am
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  Quote dndell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 May 2012 at 4:38pm
Just want you to know, MrPH, how grateful I am that you posted this.  Until I saw your config, I couldn't figure out a way to get a Z77 Motherboard from Digital Storm (can't call during Memorial Day).  I still don't know how you did it, since expert mode shows nothing but X79.  Anyway, I modified yours a little and I'm good to go, I think.
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 May 2012 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by dndell

Just want you to know, MrPH, how grateful I am that you posted this.  Until I saw your config, I couldn't figure out a way to get a Z77 Motherboard from Digital Storm (can't call during Memorial Day).  I still don't know how you did it, since expert mode shows nothing but X79.  Anyway, I modified yours a little and I'm good to go, I think.



No problem, glad I could help!

From what I can see, whatever the default processor is on the rig you select, you're stuck with only compatible motherboards, even in Expert mode. The first two levels of the Dreadnought are Z77, and the upper two are X79. I imagine it's true for the other rigs too.

I think this is really new actually. When I was working on this config a few weeks ago I remember being able to change everything. Digital Storm probably got too many people trying to order a Sandy Bridge E processor on a Z77 board and figured it would be easier to limit the options a little.
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 May 2012 at 10:56am
So no Memorial Day sale today?
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2012 at 5:56pm
Hey bprat22
 
Did you find out if the Z77 sabertooth runs dual graphics cards at x8/x8 with a sound card?
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  Quote mrpotatohead1342 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2012 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by Asangard



Hey bprat22
 
Did you find out if the Z77 sabertooth runs dual graphics cards at x8/x8 with a sound card?


I also did some research on that. I didn't call DS though. The Sabertooth does not have any sort of PLX chip like the Deluxe does, but I'm not sure if that means it can't also run a soundcard while maintaining x8/x8 GPUs.

Also something you might want to know Asangard, is that the 4GB GTX 670s will be really expensive. I was going to special order them but DS said that the pair of them would be $445 more than the 2gb GTX 670s in SLI. That was too much for me so I went with the 2GBs.
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2012 at 6:41pm
It should be able to run both video cards at 8x with a sound card.
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  Quote Asangard Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2012 at 7:01pm
Thanks Alex. Big%20Smile
All evil comes from within,
Not from Without,
Therefore, the 1st step on the Holy Warrior path,
Is to recognize thyself as thy 1st enemy.


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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 May 2012 at 12:28pm
We just added the 4GB EVGA GTX 670 cards. Cool
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