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3-3.5k build

Post Date: 2010-09-15

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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: 3-3.5k build
    Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 11:20am
Budget:
3-3.5k for just the computer. I already have 2TB of SATA III storage and I'm looking to have around 60 GB of SSD storage as a boot drive. I will be purchasing 2 monitors (and a 3rd in the near future) outside of this budget (likely 1920x1080). I have a keyboard and mouse.

Use:
Probably 25% Gaming, 50% movies, 25% audio editing/creation.

Special Needs:
I do a lot of multitasking across multiple monitors and love extra screen real estate (hence the desire to run 3 monitors). I will probably only be gaming on a single monitor for the time being. I really like liquid cooled setups, but would like some advice as to if it's worthwhile given that I would like my components to be stable and last a good while. I would like the computer to be very quiet.

The build I'm currently looking at is http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=440997, but I would also like advice on either improving the performance at the same price or taking price out at the same performance. The liquid cooling is not a necessity/I can be talked out of it, but it is one of those things I would really like to have on a build such as this.
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!ender_ View Drop Down
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 11:53am
well, theres a lot to address here, but for now ill just say a few things
 
if you are doing 25% audio editing, you will probably want an audio card.
 
if silence is what youre after, you need to approach this from a new direction. the zalman fans are loud, the haf x case is open air, which increases noise, and water cooling isnt a noise solution, unless you replace every fan with something better, this would be WAY louder than a noctua u12p air cooler
 
sli 460s is a pretty weak setup when you consider that dual 470s is only $160 more and vastly more powerful
 
heres more power for about 800 less
 
if you are after whisper quiet, consider using a closed case with a triple rad for the video cards only, we can talk more about that if you want it but keep in mind it will be pricey and the fermis are really not that loud
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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 12:39pm
Thanks for the advice. As you might imagine, I'm pretty new to the high-ish end market, so I'm not really sure what's best for me.

In this case, the water cooling wasn't really a noise solution, but more to keep the hardware cool so that it may last a bit longer (but again being new to the market I'm not sure if that's true or not).

On the audio card front, I had planned to add one once I choose the editing software (sorry I forgot to mention that in my original post).

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=441035
Above is a revised version based on some of your advice. I assume the dual 470s can drive 3 simultaneous monitors, but it would be good to hear that from someone who knows for sure (the only "modern" hardware I've dealt with has been from ATI/AMD).

Sorry if I sound confused/uniformed (because I am), but I very much appreciate the expert advice.
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 1:01pm
no problem you can ask as many questions as you want, thats the point of this section.
currently with nvidia you can do:
1 video card = 1 or 2 monitors
2 video cards = 3 monitors *edit
2 video cards = 1 or 2 monitors
3 video cards = 3 monitors
 
on the water cooling front, it will definitely allow overclocked hardware to last longer, but the amount longer is extremely variable per part, makes it hard for me to justify the $700 difference in cooling when that much money is half way to a new comptuer
 
im not going to try and talk you out of watercooling, just to inform you that its main use is really just overclocking capacity. after that, its a really cool looking and functioning luxury to have if maxed out overclocking isnt on the table. its not quieter, not less dusty, requires more upkeep...
 
id also probably avoid the os tweak as windows 7 doesnt really need it, everyone considers different features important, so I feel this would be hard to do for someone else without knowing *exactly* what they use, what they want, and what matters to them
plus win7 is already very optimized and simply doesnt need much, if anything changed
 
i would have suggested moving up to dual 480s in your budget range but if you arent that serious about hardcore gaming and dont intend to game on more than 1 of those monitors, it wouldnt really be needed


Edited by !ender_ - 15 Sep 2010 at 5:00pm
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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 1:48pm
Thanks again. On the watercooling front, how much more expensive would it be to upgrade components within that setup as new hardware gets released. I believe that (at minimum) a waterblock for the new component would be required and the system would need drained, the new component installed within the existing loops, and then refilled, but I have no feel for how difficult or how much more expensive this is.

What I'd like to eventually have (2-3 years from now), is this case for high performance builds, and another case with the components from the last high performance build inside. I figure this points towards keeping everything air cooled, which is sounding more and more like it makes the most sense.

The intelligent person in me knows I should probably go with the system you recommended, but there's that silly voice inside me saying "more is more" with respect to the cooling system. Also, about how hot would the inside of the case (and more importantly the 470s) be on the air cooled system configuration vs. a liquid cooled one?
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 2:05pm
well for replacing processors on the same socket, its stupid easy, basically the same thing as taking out a phones battery
for video cards its a little more involved. you have to either buy cards with water blocks on them, or take the card apart and hook up the water block yourself. both processes are pretty involved. how "hard" they are depends on your level of tech knowledge / experience, so thats hard to answer. its definitely one of the more difficult hardware related things (outside of modding)
 
when you say the eventually have part, do you mean you want to buy this build, then strip it out of the case and put in new hardware later... placing the "current" hardware that you are about to buy in a new, seperate case?
not sure i understand that part
 
interior case temps, believe it or not, will be lower with air cooling. since water cooling is based on the temps inside the hoses/heatsinks, and most rad setups have the rads exhausting in to the case it makes the ambient case temperature higher where air cooled is a constantly moving system that will keep everything cool inside
 
its relative too, becuse how much you want to overclock will impact your water and therefore your case temperatures.
 
to me, if you really want liquid cooling, your best shot here is to talk to DSO about looping only your 2 video cards to a triple rad. this way you can jack up your video power if you want/need to without much hassle and, later down the line, youll already have a LC setup to do 2 future cards with. main reason being that processors are already ahead of where they need to be for gaming, so LCing a processor for gaming is super overkill right now, LCing your video cards would give a much better increase/potential to increase your gaming power
 
but at the end of the day, as exciting as water is, air is simply able to do a good enough job for a powerful gaming rig. and if you are looking to stay with the gaming power curve, holding the money to buy the two newest video cards will put you further in the lead than liquid cooling will
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 3:03pm
The "eventually have" is because I'll *likely* have access to a similar case with slightly older components where I'll be able to start moving components as I upgrade them (new video cards to this case, video cards from this build into the other case), such that I can rotationally buy new hardware when appropriate. (I'm still not entirely sure if this will happen this way, or if I'll just end up buying another high end rig in 2-3 years and then start passing components down from there into this build).

With respect to liquid cooling just the video cards on a triple rad, what's the best way to start such discussions with DSO (and can you guess at the price difference between that and running dual loops)?

Thanks again for all your help.
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MagiK View Drop Down
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  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 3:49pm
On the SLI/ Multiple Cards and Multiple Monitor side,  Ender, can you explain something to me,   From what I have heard when running cards in SLi you can only drive a single monitor, to get multi monitor support you either have to drop out of SLi or have a third non-SLI'd card to drive the other monitors.
 
I have neve rhad SLi before and am not sure how it works...am I completley outdated on that front?

(Note the New Nvidia 3D thing is a whole different beast)
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:14pm
With respect to liquid cooling just the video cards on a triple rad, what's the best way to start such discussions with DSO (and can you guess at the price difference between that and running dual loops)?
my guess is that the price would be the same-ish as cpu+chipset cooling, but im not sure. Im really not sure why this isnt already an option, but you can just email Alex @ [email protected] and he will help you out.
 
MajiK, you dont have to give up SLI for 2 monitors, it works like this
 
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  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:27pm
Thanks for clearing that up Ender...my knowledge was out of date.
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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:40pm
Now I'm confused again... The link seems to indicate that only 2 monitors can be used when the cards are in SLI, but the earlier post indicated that 3 could be used with two cards installed. Which is it?
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:56pm
wow that was a stupid typo on my part
fixed, sorry about that, i usually proof read and ninja edit really well but im still at work Crazy
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  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 4:58pm
Ok Scrapped that and corrected:

In SLi to get 3 monitors according to Enders link you need a third NOn-SLi'd card to handle monitors 3 and 4

Nvidia has a new tech called 3D vision which is detailed in the link below.

Heres the skinny on Nvidia's 3D Vision technology:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-surround-technology.html

Final Edit I promise:  It looks like in the 3D vision you dont really have 3 monitor support it treats all three as one monitor and spreads the game across them all...


Edited by MagiK - 15 Sep 2010 at 5:08pm
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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 5:11pm
Looking at nVidia surround display links, it seems that SLI 470s are capable of running 3 displays.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dv-system-requirements-surround-technology.html
It does *seem to* have the restriction that the displays must all have the same resolution, refresh rate, and sync polarity (how would you confirm if different displays would have the same sync polarity?).
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
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  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 5:15pm
Im thinking your best bet for 3D vision is to have 3 of the same monitors.
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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 5:24pm
I'm not thinking 3d vision (I already have a 3d LED TV for that), but more for having 3 independent monitors (for multitasking). I have always been quite confused by the nVidia information on the subject and kind of wish it worked/was documented more like eyefinity from ATI.
Yea, I'm now totally lost as to what the dual 470s offer with respect to multiple monitor support...
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Sep 2010 at 5:53pm
dual 470s can support nvidia's sli (3 monitor spread) but they do this by treating all 3 monitors as one.
 
to be honest, ive never looked at more than dual monitor setups, so why this idea does not translate in to 2 470s supporting 3 independent monitors, i do not know.
 
its possible that it does.. and the nvidia guide there is not updated.. this article from [H] doesnt answer the question directly, but it addresses the similarities question
more info here
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matt.woot View Drop Down
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  Quote matt.woot Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 2:14pm
Looks like all I'd need to do is disable SLi in the nVidia control panel and I'd be able to use the 3 displays as independent. When I want to game on one (or all 3 in surround), I'd just need to re-enable SLi before doing so.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I'm currently awaiting cost information to put the video cards into a triple rad before I make my final decision (and seeing if I can get an 80+ gold certified 1000W power supply instead of the corsair).
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 2:24pm
its already 80+ (not gold) but if you wanted anything else for some reason you can always buy it and ship it to DSO, just make sure you iron that out with DSO first.. if thats really worth an extra 7% effeciency to you
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