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$3000ish build

Post Date: 2011-11-21

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DirkSJx View Drop Down
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: $3000ish build
    Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 8:05pm
Hey! So I'm an old customer, bought my last computer from here 9/2007 and I've finally started hitting games that run slowly at high settings.  Only thing I've had to replace in all that time was the GPU (running a GTX260 now), 1680x1050.

What I am looking for:
 - $3000ish, under would be nice, not much over if at all
 - Will last me a similar 4ish years (with perhaps replacing GPU at some point)
 - SSD
 - Would like to upgrade to 1920x1080 (my monitor is dying so this is another opportunity to upgrade)
 - I would like to run max or near max settings for the next few years on most games (which I could do with the old computer)
 - I mostly play MMOs and a few RTS and FPS games (none of the blockbuster spec crushing things like Crysis really)

I have made two builds that I know can be improved.  That's why I post:
620784 $2755
620785 $2982

1) So these are the EXACT same loadout but one was built under black ops and one under spec ops.  Is the $220 difference really just that case?  Is that case $220 better?

2) I have read Dragoon's posts about Intel being the only SSDs worth using but they were like a year old.  Is that still accurate?

3) Part of me wants to move to only-SSD.  I could use my current 260gb HD as a data drive in the new system.  I think I would need more than 120 gb though because I tend to have more than one MMO installed and they are HUGE.

4) Cooling...I am not particularly concerned about noise.  I would like a strong enough cooler that I get a decent overclock without putting the CPU at risk for not reaching a 4 year lifespan.  Is the default the way to go or the Noctua or...?

5) Is it even worth pushing for more than the Stage 1 overclock?  From what I understand games are not generally CPU limited.

6) Power supply...is the 750W option actually better than the 800W?  It looks like the 750W is modular and the 800W is not?

7) Mobo...I REALLY don't know enough about these new mobos to know if any of them are worth the upgrade.

8) Worth waiting for Kepler?

Lastly...any tips on a good monitor?  I was actually considering the same ACER 23 inch model that DSO offers but buying it through another venue since the DSO price is not ideal.  I've used ACER monitors for some time now and always been happy.  The ACER has no HDMI input though which is sadface.

The 3D ASUS monitor looks interesting but I am unsure if I would just be buying hype.  The whole 3D thing is just...yeah...sorta silly to me.


Edited by DirkSJx - 21 Nov 2011 at 8:08pm
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 11:35pm
1. blackops is more expensive and that case is more expensive also.

2. intel 320 or crucial c300/m4.

3. get a bigger ssd or you can always add more ssds as needed.

4. a70 or noctua.

5. with the p67/x79 platform you want to be at around 4.4 to 4.7GHz oc, so stage 2 oc but you need to ask for vcore lower then 1.4, thats more important.

6. 750w is a much better quality psu, the hx/ax series are known for their quality, and they have a 7 year warranty. but I have a question I will ask below, that might change things.

7. depends on your needs.

8. its upto you, we dont' know any facts yet to say one way or another.

now my question, are you expecting these builds you posted to be able to do sli?

Most important thing about a monitor is its panel, right now there are 2 major ones, TN and IPS, IPS has superior picture quality/clarity.

here is a good ips montior:

Dell UltraSharp u2312

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DirkSJx View Drop Down
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 3:22am
Thanks for the reply!

So part of it is the case...the rest of the price difference is just the name?

The Intel 510 SSD isn't worth the price diff?  And the Crucial is good even though the price point is so much lower than the Intel?

Can you either point me at a website or give me the one-sentence version of why I should ask for low vcore?

Regarding SLI: I don't think I need it.  So far I haven't needed an SLI setup for the gaming I've done in the past.  I also was not looking at 1920 res though so...if the GeForce 580 can't handle high settings at 1920 then maybe I should be looking into 2 x 570's.

New build: 620970  $2917

Interestingly if I change the 2x 128gb SSDs to two individual 128gb SSDs the price goes down to $2837.  Seems sort of strange.  Is arranging them in a raid config really $80 worth of work?

Thanks for the monitor tip!!!
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 6:26am
The res is name/options, which really don't matter.

higher core then 1.4 will speed up the death of your cpu.

the difference between 580 and 570 where it counts is very little so sli 570 is pretty much like sli 580, you either go single 570 or sli 570, no point in going 580.

best option for 1900 x 1200 to be able to max out settings is sli 570.

510's main speeds like 4k are actually lower then 320/c300.

again I can't comment on your build till I know if you want it to be able to go sli or not.
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DirkSJx View Drop Down
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 11:28am
If best for 1920x1080 is going to be SLI 570s then I guess yes SLI 570 is where I'm going to be.  I changed out the PS to the 1000W with quad 12 volt rails to support it.

Here are my new builds:
621047 $3185
621049 $2887

The diff between them is x79 6 core at 3.2 Ghz vs P67 quad core 3.5 Ghz.

Though since I'm overclocking to stage 2 would I even need to buy the 2700K over a slower one?

I have read many times that a faster base processor speed is generally better than more cores for most gaming which almost makes me think the cheaper one will end up being a better computer.  I don't know too much about the motherboard differences, however, and how much they will factor in to the speed.

For the new quad core build I selected the sabertooth mobo.  It has two full x16 connectors.  Also it looks pretty haha.  Not sure if that was the right pick.
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  Quote jmaster299 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 12:20pm
I'll steal something from DST since I know he'll say it anyways, get the Cosair 1050HX PSU. Of all your parts, don't cheap out on the PSU. Better quality, more efficient and longer warranty.

For your CPU, the 3930k is technically better then the 2700k, but it is not required. Get the 2700K with Stage 1 or 2 over clocking and save some money. The Sandybridge-E line is more for people setting benchmarks or rendering. In your 2700k build that Sabertooth does not run as x16x16 in SLI, it is still x8x8 in x2 SLI like the other MOBOs in that family. Each of the lanes is x16 but running both at the same time drops them down to x8 each.

That is really one of the only drawbacks to the P67/Z68 series boards is the limited number of PCI lanes. There are only so many total PCI lanes on a MOBO and if I remember correctly the P67/Z68 top out at like 20 or 24. But just like the CPU, at your resolution x16x16 is not required. For that series of boards go with the P8P67 Deluxe.

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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 1:05pm
Thanks for the tips.  I'll change it to the 1050W.  I'll stick with the P67/Z68 series.

Looking at those boards more...yeah...no x16x16 on any of them :(.  But if I won't need that for 1920 then that's fine.

I can't quite see what I am getting by upgrading to the Deluxe board you mention.  Some more PCIe slots it seems but I don't need more than the two for my graphics cards.

Downgrading to 2600K...good idea or bad?  I read somewhere it's effectively the same as the 2700K when overclocking.
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  Quote HAL Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 1:26pm
Dont get the 2700k, I can't believe DST4ME didnt say it first but the 2700k=2600k+0.1 ghz overclock...so yeah get the 2600k and save some money

I dont know who intel is marketing towards, probably people who say "Haha! I got a 2700k at 3.5 ghz and you only have the 2600k(which could be overclocked much higher)" lol
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 1:40pm
Last time DST4ME replied I was still looking at the X79's.  I'm sure he would have said it :).

A "final" build 621093 $2869.

I'm not sure about the mobo still.  I don't know what I am getting for upgrading to the deluxe as recommended.  I don't think I need any more PCI/PCIe slots.  I think the deluxe supports faster RAM?  But from what I have read RAM speed is a minimal concern.

I sort of want to go to one of the Z68 boards maybe...Quick Sync looks good...Not sure which of the Z68's is good though.

The build is pretty similar to ODE level 3 honestly...that may be better due to lower cost...

Cons:
 - less awesome case
 - "bad" SSD
 - weaker PS
 - standard liquid cooling
 - no free game :)


Edited by DirkSJx - 22 Nov 2011 at 5:09pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 5:33pm
Ok lets clarify some things.

1. x79 is for people that have a use for a 6 core cpu, or need tri sli ability, or just want the most powerful/latest tech.

2. pci lanes bandwidth does not really matter as long as you are getting x8, you don't need x16 cause x8 will give you the same performance, difference might be 1 fps.

3. when it comes to psus, always go with one that has a good track record, technps is a reseller they don't make their own psus, we don't know the real maker of the psu to know its track record, it has only a 2 year warranty, and most importantly, when it comes to psu, always go with a powerful single rail vs multi rail, last the 1050 hx has a 7 year warranty.

4. as mentioned the 2700k is nothing but 2600k with a little higher clock, but we are ocing here anyways, so why spend extra on a 2700k? both cpus at 4.5GHz are exactly the same cause they are the same cpu with a different name.

5. don't go by what the mobo says, they lie their ass off, the maximus mobo on the p67 claims it has x8, x16, x16, which is pure bs since the p67/68 platform has only 16 lanes for gpus, so it can only do single 16 or dual x8, anything above that is a marketing gimick. You need to know your platform so that you know what it can do and it can't do regardless of the specs you see here and there, or you can just come here and ask us lol.


6. the deluxe mobo has a great track record in p67/68 and if you need to reach cmos for a fix its much easier, sabertooth in p67 does not have great reviews on the net, once you go sli, if you want a sound card, wireless card, usb card, tv card, any kind of card, you need more pci lanes.

7. .Quick Sync is pointless with a good ssd and never comes into play.

now this last build you posted 621093, is nothing like ode to be honest from quality/performance point of view, your config has better case/airflow, mobo, psu, IMHO ssd, cpu cooler.

only thing about your config is that your ssd/hdd setup is wrong, if you want raid, you need to pick the 2 x c300 option for hdd1, right now you have a single ssd for hdd1 and single ssd for hdd2, you just want raid c300 for hdd1 right, no ssd for hdd2 correct? if yes then this is how you want it:

Ticket Number: 621221

but you don't need raid, keep in mind once you go raid, you can't switch back to single drive.

I would not call the ode ssd a bad one, it has a bad track record for its controller, but so far no complaints yet from people that have but it is new so we would have to wait a bit to see what its really made of.
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 6:07pm
Thanks again for the reply :).

I put the two HDs on separate HD slots because...well...it was cheaper for some reason haha.  I have no idea why buying the two one way should cost more than the other way.  I guess the ~$80 is for setting up the RAID?

I don't really WANT to go RAID...it was just a price thing.  Getting 2 small HDs is less than 1 large one:
2x (1x128gb) prior setup - $2869
2x128gb per your setup - $2951
1x300gb intel 320 - $3123
1x250gb intel 510 - $3121
1x240gb Corsair - $2982 - But Corsair isn't recommended from what you were saying...
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 2:08am
the 510 is not recommended more then the corsair.

yes its cheaper with raid but then if raid fails you lose all data.

HDD1 = fast small drive: os/apps/games

HDD2 = regular large drive: media/personal/work file storage

why do you need such a large hdd1?

Edited by DST4ME - 23 Nov 2011 at 2:09am
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 11:11am
MMOs.  I tend to have more than one installed and they are huge.  Two of them I have installed right now are each 40 gigs.  Those 2 + OS + non game apps (office, etc) + cache = entire 120 gig SDD pretty much.  No room for any other games :(.

When you are talking about a 40gb game the amount of time it spends reading from disk is pretty substantial so...I definitely want them on an SSD.


Edited by DirkSJx - 23 Nov 2011 at 12:52pm
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  Quote DirkSJx Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 2:26pm
It's ordered!!!  After talking with a DSO tech I went with the 300gb intel 320 SSD and only 1x570 for now.  I kept the 1050W PS for future flexibility.

Most of the games I run do not kill graphics cards (they tend to work pretty well even on my GTX260).  This way I can see how things look with one.  If it's not good enough I can wait for the price drop after the 600's launch to go SLI or just convert over to the 600 line if it's amazing.

Thanks a TON everyone for the advice.


Edited by DirkSJx - 23 Nov 2011 at 2:26pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2011 at 5:38pm
You made the right choice IMHO, keeping your options open is always the best choice IMHO
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