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4090 build - feedback welcome

Post Date: 2022-11-27

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  Quote Krib Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: 4090 build - feedback welcome
    Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 6:50am
Hi all! Third Digital Storm system here. I'll use most of the template to make this easy.

Budget:
~4k (I'm a little over right now).

Expectations:
Play AAA titles at 4k with very high framerates for the next 4-5 years.

Usage:
Heavy 4k gaming (about to pull the trigger on a 32" 4k panel as well), light photo editing, media storage for my Plex server.

Specifications:
digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=4555453

Questions:

- I chose the i7-13700KF because the i9 seemed like overkill. I don't want to waste money on a crazy CPU but I don't want to be bottlenecked either. Did I pick the right pairing for this 4090?

- I gave myself some leeway with a 1000 watt PSU, but I want to be future-proof. I could see myself upgrading the GPU in 3-4 years to get max life out of this build. Should I spring for the Silverstone 1300 watt PSU? It doesn't have great reviews.

- I'm moderately concerned about the GPU cable melt issue with the 4090. Does my choice of PSU matter here? Does anyone know how DS is addressing that when installing these cards?

- I have not chosen DDR5 memory or a compatible board after reading that it doesn't matter much yet. Check me here?

Feel free to give any other input on gaps in this build or stuff that doesn't make sense for my use case. Thanks!
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  Quote fwfdfireman Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 4:30pm
I can address a couple of your concerns. I will let the pros chime in on the rest, and even correct me if I am not right.

Gamers Nexus had a great review of CPU's here: https://youtu.be/qACIqmP8xgw You are right in that the 13900 is overkill UNLESS you also do a lot of productivity work. Steve even says the 13600 is "Best Overall" CPU. Strongly suggest you watch his video.

The melting cables, around 50 in total as of last week, are mostly caused by the cable not being seated 100%. If seated properly, there were no issues. Heck, the 4080 is supposed to be great for 4k gaming also.

And you are also right in that there is not much benefit to having DDR5 Memory right now. Somewhere down the road maybe.

Personally, I can't see spending that much money on 4k. I game at 1440p and love it. I base my statement on the fact that when I watch HD movies versus 4k movies, I don't see that much difference. Certainly not worth the extra money it takes in PC gaming to go 4k. But, to each his/her own.

Seems there is a slight delay in getting the 4090s as per some other posts. Best of luck to you and I am sure others will chime in soon.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 10:54pm
you can save almost $200 on choosing the 13600KF and it still comes recommended as a "light productivity" proc.  it's really the major difference between choosing Intel over AMD right now.  you get better power efficiency with AMD, but Intel has the better multi core performance.  the 4090 is gonna demand at least a 1000W PSU, so there won't be any savings on a lower wattage PSU even if you went with an AMD 7000 proc because of the 4090's power reqs. 

the 4080 is a good performer, but at 75% of the 4090's cost for only 75% of its performance, there's just no value there.  better to wait and see what AMD's new graphics cards (7900XT and 7900XTX) can do at $800 and $1,000.  Nvidia should be relaunching the "other 4080" 12GB version as a more proper 4070ti to tackle the 7900XT around the same price point. 

DDR4 vs DDR5 performance (at the top speeds for both) is roughly 28% (depending on which multi core tests are run), so YMMV on "value" and cost-to-performance.  good thing is that prices have fallen and availability is good on DDR5 now.  density is greater on DDR5, so if you were building on an ITX mobo i'd definitely recommend DDR5 due to only having 2 slots.  you'll have greater memory expansion going with DDR5.  the problem with going Intel CPU is that there's no future expansion on Raptor Lake anyway.  that being said, i don't really foresee a need to "future proof" the current Gen as it's so good to be able to last a good 6 years and possibly more. 


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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by fwfdfireman


Personally, I can't see spending that much money on 4k. I game at 1440p and love it. I base my statement on the fact that when I watch HD movies versus 4k movies, I don't see that much difference. Certainly not worth the extra money it takes in PC gaming to go 4k. But, to each his/her own.
brother, don't knock it til you try it, lol!  i switched from 2k to 4k and it was worth it to me.  with the screens getting faster and better i'd recommend it if you have budget for it. 
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2022 at 11:05pm
forgot to add that i'd make room in the budget for at least a 360mm AIO if not a custom LC loop. 

i'm not so worried about putting even a 4090 in the loop, as the vapor chamber "air cooler" that comes with it is more than adequate to cool the card.  it would probably come down to noise for me.  i'm more worried about cooling the proc.  you don't want any thermal/power throttling, which will bottleneck your gpu performance under heavy loads (although gaming isn't particularly high on the CPU in most games at higher resolution than 1080p).
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  Quote Krib Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 1:39am
Originally posted by db188

forgot to add that i'd make room in the budget for at least a 360mm AIO if not a custom LC loop. 
i'm not so worried about putting even a 4090 in the loop, as the vapor chamber "air cooler" that comes with it is more than adequate to cool the card.  it would probably come down to noise for me.  i'm more worried about cooling the proc.  you don't want any thermal/power throttling, which will bottleneck your gpu performance under heavy loads (although gaming isn't particularly high on the CPU in most games at higher resolution than 1080p).


Thanks! Which part is the 360mm all-in-one? I see "HydroLux PRO: Exotic Custom Cooling System (CPU Only)", but at $500, I can't do it. A shame, because a quieter system would be great. My current 5 year-old Velox does not excel there. But, I've read that at 4k, CPU usage is not as intensive, so perhaps this is fine?

Assuming that true liquid cooling is out, if I go with the 13600KF, should I just get the Stage 1 cooler? Or should I go with Stage 2?
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 4:58am
The 360mm AIO is the triple fan "H2O Stage 3". I agree the 13600KF might be a better fit for a mostly gaming use and save you money. Remember, this hybrid design brings 20 threads to bear. Not yesterday's i5. You don't want to skimp on cooling, but the Stage 2 AIO is plenty for that proc.

db188 has a great idea to have a look at the AMD GPUs before you decide. IMHO, the 4090 is way too much just to game on. Look the benchmarks over carefully. The 4080 with 16GB of DDR6X is all you should need. Heck, it blows by the 3090 Ti by 24%!! My strategy is to not get all hyped up for the latest and greatest just for its own sake when you know the next gen will blow it away, anyway. I'm much more impressed by the upgrade in quality features like Ray Tracing and DLSS each new card comes with than raw speed. Mostly, that raw speed is wasted on normal eyesight. Since you know you will want to upgrade for the features, save yourself $518 (at the least if you don't go AMD) and the 6070 will likely be your next card in under 3 years.     As said, the 3600KF will be solid for 6 years or more.

If you can get on board with my thinking, the 1000W PSU will last you the life of the system IMHO. I'd recommend the DDR5 RAM setup, it's just not that much more money here.   
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  Quote Krib Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 7:48am
Oh, 360mm AIO = 3 x 120mm fans?

Everyone's trying to talk me out of the 4090! :)

I guess I feel that the 4k high refresh rate monitors are beasts to drive. If I can get 25% more 4k performance for $400 and skip a couple of GPU generations, it seems to make sense. If I were gaming at 1440p, I would agree with you. And if budget were no limit, I would definitely take your advice on DDR5 :)
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  Quote fwfdfireman Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 8:25am
Originally posted by db188

forgot to add that i'd make room in the budget for at least a 360mm AIO if not a custom LC loop. 
i'm not so worried about putting even a 4090 in the loop, as the vapor chamber "air cooler" that comes with it is more than adequate to cool the card.  it would probably come down to noise for me.  i'm more worried about cooling the proc.  you don't want any thermal/power throttling, which will bottleneck your gpu performance under heavy loads (although gaming isn't particularly high on the CPU in most games at higher resolution than 1080p).


I am not trying to talk anyone out of 4k gaming, just expressing my opinion. Like I have said, it is up to the buyer to get what they want that will make them happy, regardless of what I or anyone else may say.

I just happen to think that my games in 144op look fantastic, so why spend all the extra money............. for what I am not sure of. Just me.
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  Quote JamesAstro Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 10:35am
It sounds like you want someone to talk you into keeping the 4090 in your build, so I'll help you do that. :)

1) I always get the top-of-line card in my builds, because it frequently means I can skip an upgrade at some point in the future. If getting that card means that you can keep it for an additional year or two, then the extra price may not matter. In some cases it may save you money in the long-run. Plus you won't have the hassle of performing an additional upgrade.

2) I put a high value on being able to purchase a new AAA game, changing all of the graphical settings to the max, and just diving right in without needing to tweak settings for performance.

3) Also keep ultrawide monitors in mind. If you ever plan on getting one you might need a higher performing card. Ultrawide monitors typically sit somewhere between a 1440p monitor and 4K when it comes to performance needs. There are also super-ultrawide monitors that are getting pretty good. LG has a new 49-incher. I imagine that has similar performance needs as a 4K monitor does.

Ok...I'll stop trying to spend your money now. :)
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 11:11am
right now i can buy a Asus TUF 4090 for $1,800 or a Zotac 4080 for $1,350.  gaming at 4K Ultra, i'd take the 4090 hands down!  don't be fooled about today's games chewing thru VRAM at those settings/resolution.  sure, i can play games on my 3080 10GB card, but it's not optimal.  limited VRAM impacts my visual experience.  i want smooth game play with all the bling.  1% (and even .01%) lows matter to me.  the launch pricing for the 4080 is all wrong (most everyone agrees). 
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 11:16am

Smile
So, I also will vote for the best card you can get ($$$$)  and if you also have time, both the AMD cards and then (maybe) the 4090Ti Drooling coming out,  should provide headroom.  I like to do as JamesAstro does and max out and dive in. Have a 3090Ti driving a 4K and doing nicely. Plan to skip the 40XX and maybe even the 50XX series.  Good luck and enjoy. Smile

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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2022 at 12:13pm
unlike with the 13900K, Intel has intentionally held back the 13600K's auto boosting ability.  unless you're manually overclocking, you won't see the proc boost over its 181W turbo no matter the mobo shenanigans.  they simply didn't want anything competing with their flagship proc. 

that being said, what's the difference between a single fan air cooler and a 360 AIO liquid cooler?  testing (in blender) seems to point to about a 20-degree Delta difference (gaming will be less difference, maybe 10 degree Delta).  the big takeaway is that the 13600K can still hit its max frequency even while running hotter on a cheaper cooling solution.  so, do you like seeing you proc run at 85C or 65C over long sessions? 

edit:  you can run the fans slower with a bigger cooler, so there's a noise reduction benefit going with a bigger/more expensive config. 

my advice, as always, is to get the best you can afford. 


Edited by db188 - 28 Nov 2022 at 12:15pm
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 2:06am
Not too keen on the idea of skipping a generation or two of genuine, quality visual improvements in exchange for a few framerates very few can even notice. Overkill for longevity's sake loses out to the constant across the board improvement from one gen to the next in my thinking. That's me.   


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  Quote Krib Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 4:36am
I ended up with a 13600KF build -- and added DDR5. This necessitated the Z790-P D5 motherboard, which I had to take a risk on despite it getting poor reviews on Newegg. Hopefully there will be no issues.

Like others on this forum, I immediately got an email from DS saying that my build was backlogged for two extra weeks based on 4090 availability. I figure if I can wait five years, I can wait a couple of extra weeks :)

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. Lively forum.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Nov 2022 at 4:00pm
congrats!  be sure to come back, post some pics, and let us know how it all went.
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 1:05am
Awesome

Nice! Strong

+1 on the images.
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 2:04am
Congrats! Glad you're happy with where you are. Regret the delay, but that's where we are these days with supply issues.
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