$4K...build it - what a great ideaPost Date: 2007-10-05 |
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bfrank2me 
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 193 |
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 Topic: $4K...build it - what a great ideaPosted: 05 Oct 2007 at 4:01pm |
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Didn't want to hijack Greg's $2k...build it thread, but think it's a fantastic service you other members and DS pros are providing for a guy like me who only buys computers once in a great while so that I can get opinions from others who are all over the newest kit available.
BTW I'm completely stoked about finding DS, by accident, as many here have indicated. Having just found the same sort of company for a 52" sony LCD TV, I'm hoping this is a new trend in internet companies which actually provide value, personal attention to detail, and follow-on service second-to-none...I hope they all get rich by filling this greatly underrepresented niche that exists in internet shopping. (steps down off soapbox) So here goes, and thanks ever so much in advance for your time and your expertise... I started with a $4k budget but I just ordered a Hanns-G 28" LCD monitor (1920 x 1200 native res) after reading every single thread on here. It was ~$650 so that leaves $3350 for the system. Like Greg, there's a bit of a fudge factor up or down for capability that warrants the expense. My last system was a P4 2.0, 80Gig HD, bought in 2000, but it was smoking hot back then. I'd like this DS computer to last well past the 3 yr mark, so stability is more important than overclocking the speed. Also I'm not particularly handy at doing my own upgrades. I put more memory and a new graphics card into my current machine, and that about exceeded the RAM in my ancient analogue brain. Here's some of my "druthers" -I'd like it as cool and quiet as possible. -Primary purpose is for the latest games - I'm an old man who refuses to grow up...besides, keeps the mind sharp and the reflexes fast! -Prefer intel over amd -black case - don't want visitors to suspect that I'm a closet noobfragging maniac -use XP now but always willing to try something new -hate having to space manage my 80Gig drive which has been completely full for some time now Hope you don't think I'm lazy for doing this, I have a config in mind but would like to incorporate the experience of others before making my decision (a trait that has only come with advanced age and wisdom) That's about it, I'm happy to provide more info if that'll help you help me. Bill F |
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...the first hundred years are the hardest
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skyR
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 4:29pm |
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http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=85427
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bfrank2me
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 193 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 4:48pm |
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Thanks SkyR...
I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but it would be waaay more helpful to understand why you made some of the selections you did.... like why only a CD & DVD reader instead of a writer? why only a 650 watt power supply when you selected 8800 ultras? etc... there was still lots of budget left, so if other selections are a waste of money, then that's helpful info too. appreciate your effort though... Bill F |
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...the first hundred years are the hardest
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skyR
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 4:59pm |
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Well you never specified that you would be burning or doing anything else besides gaming so that is why I did not pick the writer.
I did not go with SLI because it generates a lot of heat and consumes a lot of electricity. An 8800 Ultra only consumes 175W. And that single card can easily handle 1900x1200.  The choice between Q6600 and E6850 is debatable and totally up to you. Depending on what you do.. you can choose the harddrive size. Most average users don't use more than 150GB so a 320GB would be more than enough room. RAM.. 2GB at 800MHz is enough. It gives you a little room for overclocking if you choose to do it. If you want 4GB of ram, you would need to upgrade to Vista x64 and there are a lot of driver issues with 64 bit systems. any more questions or concerns? |
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gdhart
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 131 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 5:16pm |
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http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=85439
This version starts includes the ability to add a second card in the future by upgrading the PS and also includes liquid cooling since you indicated you wanted it to be quiet.
For speed with the OS & Games I have it with a 150 GB Raptor and a 500 GB second drive for data files and video.
I also upped the ram to 1066 as you will get over clocking with the Liquid cooling.
I also included a DVD burner and a gaming sound card.
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850W PSU/Pro Case
Q6600-G0 2.7GHz nVidia 680i A1 Revision 4GB 800MHz XMS2 1x500 GB WD, 2x500GB WD RAID-1 2x500GB Ext nVidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB ATI TV Wonder 650 Air Cooled Stage 3 |
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thecomplex
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Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 230 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 5:23pm |
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This is fun! By the time I came across the 2k build post there were enough responses to render my input totally unnecessary.
Here's my build. It's similar to skyR's, a bit pricier, but still a few hundred bucks below your maximum price range: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=85440 Specifications: Edited by thecomplex - 05 Oct 2007 at 5:26pm |
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Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 @ 3.52GHz
4GB DDR2 Corsair 1066MHz Dominator (2) 150GB WD Raptor (10K RPM) (1) 120GB Maxtor (7200RPM) nVidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB Vista Home Premium 64 |
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Bill the Cat
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1150 |
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 5:54pm |
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Your personal profile is very similar to mine, except you're prepared to plunk an extra $500 to $1000 more into your box. I'd suggest the following build: #85442
I'd step up one notch in PSUs, because I don't ever want to have to upgrade it, and some day you will want to go SLI.
It's hardly worth mentioning, but I threw in a floppy drive. You won't use it 364.5 days out of the year, but once in a while they're handy For example, running MEMTEST86. I wish I'd ordered one. Now I've got to futz around adding one.
Get a read/write optical drive. Hell, get two, they're cheap. The TJ9 case has 4 external drive bays plus the floppy bay. Might as well use some of them.
Make your primary drive a 10,000 RPM Raptor. Why? Life is short. Then add a 500 Gig Caviar garbage dump secondary drive. I partitioned my Raptor 50/100 to separate the OS and applications from the games. The Caviar is there in case you develop a taste for MP3s, digital photgraphy, or god forbid, digital video.
Do a mild overclock on the CPU. Think about the E6850 instead of the Q6600. The E6850 is faster now, then replace it with a Quad when multithreaded apps are more common.
Get XP Pro. I'm sorry, but the only reason I've heard to use Vista-32 is, "It's not as bad as people say it is." When Vista is really fixed, then switch OSs. It's an experience that builds character. Why put up with any crap in the meantime.
The big question, of course, is how do you feel about liquid cooling? Make that leap and the rest of your budget goes poof!
Edited by Bill the Cat - 05 Oct 2007 at 9:34pm |
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skyR
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Posted: 05 Oct 2007 at 9:08pm |
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"Also I'm not particularly handy at doing my own upgrades."
-.- so all this 'you can upgrade later' won't work unless he wants to go through the trouble of sending his system in for upgrades... I don't think you need 575GB for space. Every dollar is important, you could use it towards something else. You have tons of external storage these days such as usb drives, ipods, cds, dvds, etc. I consider myself a power user and I only have 140GB of stuff right now. 74GB and a 160GB or 320GB is way more than enough for the average user. I also don't recommend liquid cooling unless you want an headache of checking it everyday for leaks and refilling it is a major pain. Edited by skyR - 05 Oct 2007 at 9:59pm |
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Tyler Lowe
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Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 06 Oct 2007 at 1:56am |
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Hmm almost twice the budget to play around with. Case: Digital Storm Twister EXTREME (Black Anodized Aluminum Finish)
Again, a sophisticated, sleek design. I forgot to mention in the $2K build thread, that this case is engineered to provide cool air seperately to the hard drive bays, and the rest of your components, rather than drawing air through the warm HDD cage to cool the rest of the system. Very unique, and very nice feature.
Power Supply: 1000W PC Power & Cooling (8800 GTX SLI Compatible) (Turbo-Cool Edition)
This is one of the best PSU's available. Power supplies are often overlooked when people start thinking about what they want to toss into their box, but stable, clean and efficient PSU's are a definate plus. This power supply unit will give you as much room for growth as you could ever hope to use. Additionally, an efficient PSU is a cooler running PSU and cooler running means less fan noise. A PSU that is being run at between 45 and 70% of it's max rating will stay cool, quiet, and efficient. Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz (1066MHz FSB) (8MB Cache) I stand buy this one as the choice for longevity, or at least as much longevity as you can hope for in a world where computer components are obsolete before you even recieve your newly built system.
Motherboard: nVidia 680i Core 2 Quad (By: eVGA) (nForce 680i SLI) (A1 Revision)
I mentioned the better passive cooling over the LT version in the 2K build thread. It also bears mention that the board has more USB ports. Pretty much everything uses USB ports now, and they get gobbled up quickly. More is always a good thing.
Memory: 2GB DDR2 Corsair at 800MHz XMS2 (Dual Channel) (Extreme-Performance)
Without getting into all the math behind it 667Mhz RAM is an exact match with up to a 1333Mhz FSB. It's a good idea to go up one level of speed from a perfect match to ensure you don't experience any bottlenecking at the RAM.
Floppy / Media: Sony 1.44MB Floppy (Black Edition)
Some things still use this. For example, I had a version of Symantec's firewall that had me use a floppy to boot from, I believe that was a 2005 edition. If you have never, not once used your current floppy drive, and would rather a media reader for the extra front mounted USB (something I opted for) or an empty space here, it's a place to save $7.
Hard Drive 1: Not on the list- 160GB (Western Digital / Seagate) (Raid 0 Setup) (7200 RPM) (SATA) (Extreme Speed)
A.K.A.: 2x80GB HDD's in a RAID 0 configuration. I was torn with this one to be honest. You said you love to game, and the Raptor drive is built for speed and gaming, but it is also somewhat noisey. I opted instead for a RAID 0 configuration to improve your performance without increasing the noise factor too much.
Hard Drive 2: 500GB (Western Digital / Seagate) (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Never worry about managing your drive space again! Alright, so they said I'd never find a use for 8MB of system RAM before too, and the next gen of CPU's will have more than that in their L2 cache. It is possible you will find a way to fill this drive up, but if you have been making due with an 80GB drive, I would say that is highly unlikely.
Optical Drive 1: DVD-ROM/CD-ROM (DVD Reader 16x / CD Reader 40x)
Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) Will you ever want to watch a DVD while backing up files? Or listen to a music CD while playing a game? Who knows! But with how cheap DVD drives are now why not toss in two.
Video Card: nVidia GeForce 8800ULTRA 768MB (By: eVGA / Asus) (PCI-Express)
You just invested in a nice (very nice) large monitor, so it's time to grab a card that will make that purchase worth every penny. There's no other real choice here. You *could* go SLI now, or you can wait until next year and grab the second one at half the price, allowing more room in your budget to spend elsewhere in this system.
Sound Card: Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer (Up to 7.1 Channel) (Recommended)
You have the bigscreen, the smokin graphics card, now it's time to get some better than onboard MoBo sound. Hook this up to a midpriced powered speaker system (~$250-$500) and complete the game immersion. If you really like the additional features of the Fata1ty version, it's another $100.
Cooling: Air Cooled Stage 2 (Silent Artic Cooling) Quads kick out more heat than Core Duo's and an after market CPU cooler will help to keep things running nice and cool even under heavy load. I may not be concerned with a mild overclock's effects on a CPU's longevity, but I understand where you're coming from. What I would suggest, is to just talk with DS about their overclocking procedures and ask about exactly how much extra stress it places on a CPU before ruling that out.
Case Lighting: Blizzard Internal Lighting (White Edition) (Cold Cathode Tubes)
Round Cables: Enhanced Interior Air Flow (Optical Drive & Floppy Cables (Black Edition) Take 'em, or leave 'em.
 I love the flair it gives an otherwise plain jane black box, and love how it showcases the technology. The white light should give the case a bit more interest without leaning too far into the "noob fragging" arena. At worst, the cathode is a $10 dollar conversation piece you can turn off.Windows OS: XP Pro/Vista Premium
Go dual boot, and you don't have to choose.
 This build should come in at around $3150. If you do not already have a good gaming keyboard and mouse, that leaves plenty of room for that, or to upgrade to the Fata1ity soundcard.
Edited by Tyler Lowe - 06 Oct 2007 at 2:14am |
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bfrank2me
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 193 |
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Posted: 06 Oct 2007 at 5:52pm |
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I can't thank you all enough for all the info you've given me.
SkyR's right though, every dollar counts, and at my age the only bragging rights are about keeping regular every day, not having computing power that I'm quite unlikely to take advantage of. Going with single GPU now and slightly slower RAM are things I wouldn't have thought about, but as long as I'm not having to replace a motherboard, I think I'll be able to handle adding another graphics card and an sli bridge when and if the time comes. You've made me a little nervous about going with Vista now though, can anyone counter Bill the Cat's thoughts that Vista is still not ready for prime time? I'm comfortable with XP Pro and the last thing I need is to be farting around with drivers that may or may not do what they're supposed to. What am I missing out by not going with Vista other than DX 10? If I went with a dual boot system, would I notice the extra noise from a couple of RAID 0 Raptor drives, or would a 150 Gb disk be enough for both operating system and games? Wait a minute, is the 150 Gb Raptor drive an already RAID 0 connected 2 x 75 Gb. And therefore the 300 Gb is 4 drives? I need a tutorial on that one... Thanks again to everyone, I've never experienced computer system design by committee before - I think it's great! Oh, and Happy Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend to our mercilessly taxed brothers and sisters to the North... |
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...the first hundred years are the hardest
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skyR
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
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Posted: 06 Oct 2007 at 6:09pm |
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The 150GB raptor is a single drive. The 300GB RAID 0 setup is 150GBx2.
150GB is surely enough if you manage your computer well. If you don't collect music, movies, or games than you don't need more. I download 10 tv episodes weekly and the latest movies as they come out. My WoW and steam folder are like 20GB big =\ I have photoshop, sony vegas, and fraps. I only use 160GB! Average game folder is 5GB. Just because everyone wants XP doesn't make Vista a bad operating system. XP has been on the market for 5.5 years and nobody likes change. If it sells, a course the company would extend its lifetime on the market (common sense). I also don't recommend a dedicated sound card unless you have a quality sound system. Edited by skyR - 06 Oct 2007 at 6:12pm |
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Bill the Cat
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1150 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 2007 at 12:24am |
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Bfrank2me,
The way I interpreted you're initial post was that you wanted the most computer you could get for $3350. The problem, I think, is that you're trying to spend too much on this thing unless you either go liquid cooled, run two 8800 ULTRA's in SLI, or pop for one of the really bleeding edge CPUs. I'm not advocating any of those things, but to consume your budget, I think that's what you'd have to do.
Actually, I suppose you could easily spend that much just by going to Maingear or Alienware instead of DSO.
 The only way to come close at DSO is to throw a big power supply in a big case and add lots of disk drives. A paint job would help, but like me you're too conservative; or too dignified depending on how you look at it.
I waited 18 months before switching to XP. By then, XP was a better OS. I am not resistant to change. I love change for the better, but I don't need changes that complicate my life for no benefit. Let's make a list of all the current benefits of VISTA:
Someone else will have to fill in the rest. I can't think of another meaningful example, although I admit there may be some. The down side is all the problems associated with an early M$ release. I think you can handle swapping OSs when the time comes. It's not exactly fun, but it is interesting and when your done, it feels like you've got a new computer. But skyR is right; if you don't want to do that swap at some point, then get VISTA now. If you get XP, you will almost certainly want/need to switch to VISTA before the hardware goes obsolete. Edited by Bill the Cat - 07 Oct 2007 at 12:28am |
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skyR
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 2007 at 1:06am |
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2. Better support for HD content
3. Feature known as Previous Versions 4. Better memory management |
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bfrank2me
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Posted: 07 Oct 2007 at 12:41pm |
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You've got a point BTC, the budget was derived by looking at what it would cost for a (semi) bleeding edge system at other places before looking at DS. Having gone through the painful process of negotiating with the Minister of Finance (my wife) for a computer budget, it just seemed like I could get more computer here for the same money.
But then skyR being the good fiscal conservative and the good conscience on my right shoulder brought home the fact that I can get everything that I thought I wanted before, and probably still more than I actually need, and just spend less for it. That means I can also buy something nice (or frilly) for the Minister of Finance so that she'll agree to a hardware or OS upgrade when the time comes. Win-Win! One last question, do you think it would be the best of both worlds to use a dual XP-Vista boot, or is that asking for trouble. My thought is that I could continue to use XP while getting comfortable with Vista. How hard/easy would it be to remove XP once I'm ready to go solely with Vista? |
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...the first hundred years are the hardest
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Bill the Cat
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1150 |
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Posted: 07 Oct 2007 at 1:57pm |
I don't have any experience with dual boot systems. It should be a viable option, but somebody else is going to have to provide the pros and cons. If you go this route, be sure DSO know that you plan to blow away XP eventually. It may affect which partition they put it on.
Frankly, I think this would be my third choice.... If you don't want to face doing a swap in 12 to 18 months, I'd suggest going with Vista now and wait it out.
Edited by Bill the Cat - 07 Oct 2007 at 1:58pm |
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bfrank2me
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 193 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 2007 at 2:02am |
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Although I've pulled the trigger on some very awesome weapon systems, pulling the trigger on this new DS System has been the best to date. Ordered on Monday thanks to all the help and opinions received here, and I'm already in Stage 2 today.
Thanks to Robert in Sales for getting all the nitpiks I asked for straight, and to Kelly for keeping the line moving. For the curious, here's what I got:
Beefed up the power supply for future proofing, maybe I'll want it for the four card SLI coming up... Decided to beef up the hard drives, because like Scarlet O'hara I said, "as God is my witness I will never have to hard drive manage again." Also the single Ultra and 800mB RAM to save some dough - thanks skyR Now the most amusing part, the white case lights, which I didn't really want but thought, hey, they'll help me see inside and watch what's going on...aren't in stock so Kelly called and now I have to decide on another colour or to go through the hassle of a $10 refund. Perhaps I'll pimp my inner Geek and go with the blue lights, and just shut the door to my office so no one else sees the glow. Finally, I'm happy to report that I'm about $7.90 under budget, so the wife gets a happy meal instead of something frilly. At least I'm not lying to her about my purchase, shame on you ksilvers and Mysty.  And Alex, when do I expect the adoption papers for becoming a family member? More updates as they happen.... |
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...the first hundred years are the hardest
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Tyler Lowe
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Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 2007 at 8:21am |
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Great Rig.
I went blue lights myself. The Motherboard has some blue LEDs so do the Silverstone cases, though green was tempting
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gdhart
Senior Member
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 131 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 2007 at 8:24am |
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Very nice rig.
I went with the Green lights and Black cables.
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850W PSU/Pro Case
Q6600-G0 2.7GHz nVidia 680i A1 Revision 4GB 800MHz XMS2 1x500 GB WD, 2x500GB WD RAID-1 2x500GB Ext nVidia GeForce 8800GTX 768MB ATI TV Wonder 650 Air Cooled Stage 3 |
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Bill the Cat
DS Veteran
Forum Bitch!
Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1150 |
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Posted: 10 Oct 2007 at 8:54am |
You just couldn't resist a little "bling", could you?
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bfrank2me
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Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 193 |
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Posted: 12 Oct 2007 at 7:36pm |
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Yo' dat's fo' shizzle homey.
Third day in stage 2... assuming things are burning away down in Cali, hope to hear some good news next week. In the meantime my Hanns-g 28" LCD monitor arrived today. I don't want to connect it to anything other than my DS system, but I gotta say it's certainly got that WOW factor even sitting there dark. It makes my 19" CRT look pathetic in comparison, and now I've gotta clear a hole big enough on my desk for it. There are worse problems to have... |
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...the first hundred years are the hardest
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