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Advice? storage, RAM, power supply, etc

Post Date: 2010-07-06

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greenje57 View Drop Down
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Advice? storage, RAM, power supply, etc
    Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 2:16pm
I am ready to buy, and want to buy from DS -have loved reading the various posts and playing with the configurations. DS and the community here are tops!

About me and my needs:
Photo enthusiast - intending to do Photoshop image editing on largish file sizes. I will be editing video, creating slide shows, expecting high quality playback on a 1920x1200 screen (sharp 245bw). Fast, safe storage is important. Speed accessing images from a large library is important. I am not a gamer, but I crave speed and responsiveness - and am soooo tired of waiting for my current computer Pentium 4, 2.25ghz, 1.5 GB RAM) to retrieve and save images... (Plus - love the idea of making my college-age son's eyes bug out when I invite him to play a game... )

My questions:
1) I want to install a larger RAID 0+1 for storage later (can't really afford it now if I get the outfit below) - is that something the brave but inexperienced (me) will be able to configure?
2) Am I going to hurt my performance by choosing RAID 1 for my boot drive?
3)I figured a big power supply would help when I added extra hard drives and would give me headroom to add a second video card in a couple years. Does that make sense for me or is it overkill?
4) in the cooling selection - would I be wiser to add the extra bucks for the stage 2 noctua setup? I couldn't tell what the difference was between the stage 1 and stage 2- they both looked like dual fans...
5) I like the idea of a memory card reader installed, but I didn't like the sound of front USB ports being disabled. Why are two ports disabled by the internal card reader?
6) I thought the more RAM the better - but I have also seen posts indicating that 6GB was fine - should I buy less RAM and invest in hard drives for my storage RAID?

Any other cautions, corrections, or advice? THANK YOU!

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master HAF 932
Processor: Intel Core i7 930 2.8GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 LE Edition SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 12GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified (Highly Recommended
Power Supply: 1200W Digital Storm Certified (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Highly Recommended)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 2x (1TBWestern Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX (7200 RPM) (64MB Cache) (SATA) (Extreme Speed)
Set 1 Raid Options: Configure HDD Set 1 to a Raid 1 Config - Mirror Backup (Requires Two HDDs)
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 1x ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional (PCI-Express Slot Based)
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: Noctua Dual 120mm Fans High Performance Cooler (Compatible With ONLY i7 Processors)
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: FREE: Stage 1: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz (Cooling Upgrade Recommended)
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium (64-Bit Edition)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: FREE: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Xtra Large) Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: FREE PROMO: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 3 Year Hassle-free Hardware Service



Edited by greenje57 - 06 Jul 2010 at 2:17pm
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justin.kerr View Drop Down
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 2:53pm
RAID 1 will slow it down slightly, but not much, you can install RAID 0 on a small partition for the OS and apps, then RAID 1 on the rest of the HDDs  for secure storage, to get best of both world, but I don't know if DS knows how? I imagine they do, just have to call them. it is very easy.
 
Myself, I use USB thumb drives to store any important stuff, and DST he likes to clone the drives.. so there are other options besides RAID
 
you won't need a 1200 watt power supply, even a 750 would work, and all the hard drives you want, will not put enough load to need a larger power supply.
 The 6000 series from ATI will be out in lets say 9 months, so if the 5870 is not cutting in for you in a year or so, you would be a lot better off pulling it out, and putting in a 6000 series card, versus adding another 5870.
 
either noctuas are fine, only 3C-5C degrees difference between them.
 
RAM, 6Gb is plenty for gaming, Photoshop get 12Gb
 
The card reader, it will disable two ports but it will have one on it.. if it is the same one the use to use.
Myself I would get a external one, and hook it to one of the many rear USB ports, so I still have all my front ones, plus one extra..and it is easy to replace if it goes bad. lol
 
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by greenje57

1) I want to install a larger RAID 0+1 for storage later (can't really afford it now if I get the outfit below) - is that something the brave but inexperienced (me) will be able to configure?

Surprisingly simple and easy. Just make sure the BIOS is in RAID mode, plug in the drives, and then during start up you access the RAID configure screen (something like shift+F11 during boot for EVGA boards, just check the manual), create a new RAID array, and select what drives you want to use in it.

Remember that you'll be limited by 6 total SATA ports. If a board lists more than 6 SATA ports anything over the first 6 are all JMicron SATA ports which are not only ungodly horrible for compatibility and performance (KILL THEM WITH FIRE, DO NOT USE), but can't even be used for RAID arrays anyway. Some cases come with an extermal eSATA port which will connect internally to one of the SATA ports, but you can just disconnect that to hook up another internal HDD.

Originally posted by greenje57

2) Am I going to hurt my performance by choosing RAID 1 for my boot drive?

No. Read speed may actually even increase, though I'm not sure if the ICH10R (standard Intel motherboard SATA ports) has that functionality. But you don't want a RAID 1 array or HDDs for OS/apps anyway, more on that below.

Originally posted by greenje57

3)I figured a big power supply would help when I added extra hard drives and would give me headroom to add a second video card in a couple years. Does that make sense for me or is it overkill?

HDDs take very little power, no need to up a PSU for them, but you would need to for video card expandability. If wanted to have expandability for future dual Crossfire 5870s you'll want a 1000w PSU.

Originally posted by greenje57

4) in the cooling selection - would I be wiser to add the extra bucks for the stage 2 noctua setup? I couldn't tell what the difference was between the stage 1 and stage 2- they both looked like dual fans...

With stock both have dual fans, the smaller Noctua NH-U12P has 2x 120mm fans, the larger Noctua NH-D14 has 1x 140mm and 1x 120mm fans and a bigger heatsink. The Noctua NH-D14 also has the ability to mount a third fan (which you'll have to supply or have DS order).

The large Noctua NH-D14 has more potential, for either better cooling or the same cooling as the smaller Noctua but with less noise, but at stock there isn't too big of difference between them, often just a few degrees difference in CPU temperatures. The smaller Noctua is a better bang for the buck buy if you want to save money to put elsewhere in the rig.

Originally posted by greenje57

5) I like the idea of a memory card reader installed, but I didn't like the sound of front USB ports being disabled. Why are two ports disabled by the internal card reader?

They both use the same motherboard connection port. The HAF 932 has 4 front USB ports (and some ridiculous amount of them in the back) so two of them might still work even with the card reader installed, but ask DS for confirmation on that.

Originally posted by greenje57

6) I thought the more RAM the better - but I have also seen posts indicating that 6GB was fine - should I buy less RAM and invest in hard drives for my storage RAID?

For gaming and even heavy multitasking 6GB is great, but for heavy media editing you can never have enough, so you'll definitely want to get 12GB. Get the Digital Storm Certified (Mushkin, Kingston, or Super Talent, 9-9-9-24 timings), by far the best buy for the money.

Originally posted by greenje57

Any other cautions, corrections, or advice? THANK YOU!

I don't personally care for sound cards, so it would probably be the first thing I would ditch from your build to save some money for elsewhere, but if you're an audiophile and have a quality set of speakers or headphones to pair with one then go for it.

For a fast system you'll want OS/apps on an Intel SSD, these are ridiculously faster than conventional HDDs, almost no access time, literately 80-100 times faster small file read/write performance, and at least twice the large file read speed of any conventional HDD. This is premium price space though, so you're not going to be able to have enough SSD space for media editing with any kind of sane budget and will still need to put together a RAID array of conventional HDDs for faster speeds with a lot of space.

Keep in mind that RAID 1 and RAID 0+1 mirrors are no substitute for external backups, though they make nice extra line of defense with real time backups in case of mechanical failure. The problem is that a virus, power surge, or fire could easily take out every drive in an array at once. So you'll still need to make regular backups to an external that is kept disconnected to protect it from viruses and power surges, and if possible stored in another location to protect it from a fire taking out both the primary and backup.
Lilim
Intel Core i7 920 @4.2GHz
HAF 932 - Dual SLI Nvidia GTX 480s
3x Intel X25-M G2 (80GB) SSD RAID0
R.I.P. Sinbad the cat (November 16, 1996 - April 18, 2011)
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greenje57 View Drop Down
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Jul 2010 at 4:35pm
Thanks justin and Dragoonseal for the great advice. I am absorbing and processing... I will drop the power supply down, and look carefully at SSD. I'll stick with stage 1 noctua. I'll stick with 12 GB RAM. Thinking about pulling out the sound card to free up bucks for the SSD... THANKS!
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Jul 2010 at 11:23pm
I ended up seduced by the SSD. To help afford it I will install my own, smaller RAID and forego the sound card and large power supply. Thanks again for the help.

Here is what I believe I will order:

Ticket Number: 421180
Total Price with Instant Savings: $2,464.00

Direct Load URL: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=421180

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master HAF 932 Exterior
Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 930 2.8GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 LE Edition SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 12GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 750W Digital Storm Certified (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Recommended)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (160GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Extreme Performance) (Model: X25-M MLC Edition)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) (LightScribe Edition)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 1x ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: Noctua Dual 120mm Fans High Performance Cooler (Compatible With ONLY i7 Processors)
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: FREE: Stage 1: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz (Cooling Upgrade Recommended)
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-Bit Edition)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: FREE: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Xtra Large)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 1 Year Hassle-free Hardware Service
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  Quote Manbearpig Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 2:17pm
I'm very new here and haven't bought my comp yet (still can't decide on a monitor), but I've been reading, and learning, a lot.  You probably don't need a 160 SSD for the OS/Apps drive - 80 should do.  With the $$$ saved you should be able to have DS install the 2 bigger HDDs in RAID..
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 2:25pm
Thanks for the comment about the capacity. You've got me thinking and maybe I'll do that and save some bucks. I must have gone back and forth 2 or 3 times now on that one...
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 2:58pm
yea, you dont need to choose either or, get the 80 ssd and a sound card in my opinion
 
i disagree with dragoon on the sound card point (big suprise, lol)
i tried gigabyte's onboard sound and was not happy, went back to my creative xfi card, i really see a big difference, but as much as i dont consider myself an audiophile i do have a set of $140 roccat headphones, and i tinkered with the onboard sound for days before deciding to strip my old rig for the xfi... so maybe i am
 
the good thing for you is that these are not difficult components to switch / upgrade. if you buy without a SSD or a sound card, you can always add one of either or both later.
 
my opinion, which is based on video editing and gaming, is that the sound card is a better use of the money. they have little to no direct impact on gaming, so i choose the sound card first. BUT this is about your build, so think about which one contributes more to your specific build and needs
 
consider the following: (bill nye anyone?)
same idea, but you get more HDD space, you still get an SSD, and you get a sound card, $3 increase in price
 
i will say though, that i heavily suggest going down to 6 gigs of ram, 12 is such gross overkill to me, its almost sloppy
8 logical cores and 6gigs running at 1600mhz -probably higher with your overclock
i mean thats already overkill
 
but hey, its your rig, the ssd / sound card adjustment is an easy choice to me, ram is up to you, but keep in mind that much ram will be a detriment to your overclock
AND you can always add ram later, easy and not expensive, if you actually feel slow... which i will bet you my new rig that you will not.


Edited by !ender_ - 10 Jul 2010 at 2:59pm
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 3:05pm
Now more to think about!!! Thanks for the advice - I appreciate it - and will put some more thought into the options before i pull the trigger. I guess the RAM part is a great point - if I feel bogged down I can always buy another set of three and pop them in. How does 12GB RAM hurt the overclock?
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 4:01pm
I don't know. There is some kind of mystical dance that occurs between RAM and timings and voltages and CPU clock cycles and phases of the moon that is all arcane to me. BUT, I can say that if you change the amount of RAM you have initially, your overclock will have to be redone. !ender_ is an expert oc'er, so he doesn't even blink at the thought. It gives me chills to think about it, because I don't even know if you have to return your CPU to stock settings before you install more RAM, or the Bios will freak out and do it to/for you, or if your comp will just sit there and go WTF with error codes and such.
 
Obviously, I don't know this stuff first hand, but !ender_ who is qualified in my view to know, is the only knowledgeable poster here that does not recommend more RAM for photoshopping and video. Everyone else does. My advice is that if you have the money for it, get it now, so your oc will be DS warranted. More RAM can lower the oc somewhat, because of that aforementioned mystical dance, but not so much you would care.
Coolermaster Storm Sniper
Intel Core i7 930 3.8GHz OC
EVGA X58 LE
6GB DDR3 1600Mhz Ram
750W Corsair
1TB HDD
1x ATI RadeonHD 5870 1GB
Noctua Dual 120mm
I can make my mind think... anything....
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 4:39pm
I am a naive newbie. I didn't realize that adding RAM might require special procedure... It'll be an adventure to step out of the world of Dell and into the DS world! Lots to learn.I am still leaning toward the higher amount of RAM - I agree that having the DS team get it all stable is best for me. I'm fixed on the smaller SSD and will probably go for the sound card. One more night to stew over it all and then dig for the wallet and get started! I have a couple of drives on order to handle the storage. I'm going to try setting up the RAID 1 myself.
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 5:38pm
Remember, he does a lot of media editing, the RAM is actually important for him unlike a pure gaming rig.
Lilim
Intel Core i7 920 @4.2GHz
HAF 932 - Dual SLI Nvidia GTX 480s
3x Intel X25-M G2 (80GB) SSD RAID0
R.I.P. Sinbad the cat (November 16, 1996 - April 18, 2011)
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 9:00pm
Don't forget your lifetime tech support when you get a DS computer. You can call tech support and they will be happy to walk you through that raid setup over the phone. That's DS. Cool
Coolermaster Storm Sniper
Intel Core i7 930 3.8GHz OC
EVGA X58 LE
6GB DDR3 1600Mhz Ram
750W Corsair
1TB HDD
1x ATI RadeonHD 5870 1GB
Noctua Dual 120mm
I can make my mind think... anything....
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  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 9:20pm

my thoughts that 6 over 12 gb of ram is more practical is more based around oc'ing and gaming. that is correct.

i personally feel that if you are trying to stick to a budget, i would choose a SSD and sound card over 12gigs of ram
 
i dont use photoshop professionally, but i do use it a lot. my last rig, may it rest in peace, was a q6600 @ 3400ish + 2gigs ram @ 1120s, i used photoshop on a daily basis, and there were some delays, to be sure, but it was never an issue for me, only when applying complex filters really.
now im using it on my new rig(see sig) and i havent seen it hesistate onceeeeee
my tips are from personal exp, but if you edit a lot of super big .tifs then youre already over my photoshop level, so you would know better what you need
 
if its an issue, you do not need to reset an overclock to add ram, if youre pushing for benchmarks you will likely want change your settings to use your new ram in the best way, but unless you getting close to your qpi or ram speed limits, it shouldnt be an issue
also it would of course be advisable to add ram using the same model
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  Quote greenje57 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 10 Jul 2010 at 9:22pm
I appreciate all the encouragement. Not to overgush - but this DS and DS community experience has been like a sunrise after a nightmare with another outfit... Can't wait to get that new machine!
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