Advice would be appreciatedPost Date: 2010-10-14 |
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Qwann
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Joined: 14 Oct 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
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Topic: Advice would be appreciatedPosted: 14 Oct 2010 at 5:16am |
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Budget: 1500$-1800$
Usage: 80% Gaming- WoW, SC2, Knights of the Old Republic MMO (Edit-Technically not #3 in the series) 10% Web Surfing 10% Homework which may include some basic 3d modeling. Special Needs: Already have a mouse (razer naga) and keyboard and monitor are things I'm going to pick up beforehand. Assume monitor would be using a 1920x1080 resolution. Saved Ticket #: I'm looking at either 448014 vs 448016 Alright DSO, I thought I'd finally get your opinions on my rig that I'll be purchasing in December. I realize it's a little early but I've been trying to do my research and get the most bang for my buck. I'd also like to say that I looked at Cyberpower and Ibuypower for quite a while before stumbling across DSO, and I immediately felt much more at ease. Even through a lot of scouring across the internet I've yet to find a truly negative review where someone encountered an issue where it wasn't promptly and respectfully addressed, whereas reviews from some of the cheaper competitors often contain horror stories of never being able to reach tech support etc. That aside, I've never built a PC before, and only recently started to do some research into what makes them tick. My current machine is a 2008 MacBook, with an Intel Core 2 duo, 2.4 ghz, 2 gb ram, but with an integrated intel GMAx3100 graphics unit, which is an abomination for gaming. I am also discouraged from buying a mac now because of the (according to what research I've done) limited support from Nvidia/AMD, such as newer and more efficient drivers, etc, and their outrageous price tag with a lot of the money going to features that I would never use. With that said, I've looked into building a computer myself, but I can't quantify the warranty or the tech support that I would receive if I purchased a pre-built custom machine. I also have little to no real world experience with how rigs get put together, and exactly which components work with others or if they're viable. I realize that there are a multitude of guides available online to try to guide you through this process, but without speaking to a live person or seeing something in person I can't seem to understand it fully. I've also done a fair bit of research into Hardware, but not exactly what makes the hardware work, like how your Gpu's are wired to your Psu, as an example, or how you would go about putting a processor onto a motherboard. One quick question to interject here- I've never seen anything to the contrary, but I'm assuming once you put a processor onto a motherboard you couldn't take it off and put it on a different motherboard, is that correct? I'm thinking that taking a class with some hands-on aspect would do me a lot of good in furthering my knowledge. Now for some real questions. The first build listed above is very similar to the Level 2 setup that is available when purchasing the HAF 932, which, from reading !ender's guide, seems to be the case of choice. The differences include upgrading to a Gtx 470, moving from the I5 655k to the 760, and upgrading the stock fan and heat sink. After reading the forums I recall seeing somewhere that getting the free DSO overclocking at 3.2-3.9 ghz is inadvisable using the stock fan and heatsink. First I'm not exactly sure what that includes. From all the pictures I've been able to find, I've noticed that the upgraded cooling fans are mounted right over your processor. Does the stock fan mean only the fans in the case? Or is there just one fan over your processor that really can't cut it? What exactly is a "heatsink"? Googling it brings up fans on cpu's, but the wikipedia page (which I'm not really making sense of) is something a little different. Right? I'm also not really sure which of the motherboards in the level 2 configuration. Any advice? From !ender's guide, he suggested that the upgrading the GPU will get you the most performance for your money, so with that in mind it seemed logical to go to the 470, with duel 470's perhaps being possible in the near future (even though !ender would recommend against it). I also have a feeling that the 750w PSU wouldn't be enough for duel 470's, but I can't quantify upgrading to the 1000w right now. !ender's guide states 1000w would be needed for duel 480's, is this also the case with 470's? Once again, is it possible to upgrade the PSU down the line, my gut tells me yes, but I'd rather ask now than be sorry later. That puts most of my questions out there, so I'll continue onto the second build. In this one, at the upper end of my price range, I went with i7 950 (the really only logical processor under level 3 with the Haf 932) 6gb of ram, which I realize is overkill for current games, but I'd like to have a little longevity, and going down to 3gb, doesn't quite seem to be enough, the Evga sli 3 mobo which seems to be the mobo of choice from the forums, but stuck with the 750 w PSU. Also upgraded to the cooling system of choice the Noctuo U12. Wow, you're still reading this? I opted against an SSD, as it seems to be a luxury right now, and not a real performance upgrade in gaming, and that from my understanding the intel g3 ssd's will be out by next year, which could possibly be something that I would upgrade to. Concerns with both builds are the PSU's, with the future possibility of SLI 470's. I'm just throwing this up here before I collapse into bed. For some reason whenever I'm researching computer components, I seem to lose track of time. I'll be back later for some revision. ~Have at it~ Edited by Qwann - 14 Oct 2010 at 2:35pm |
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teaiewold
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Joined: 26 Jun 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 216 |
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 6:03am |
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Just a heads up there will not be a Knights of the Old Republic 3
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!ender_
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Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 8:59am |
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I'm assuming once you put a processor onto a motherboard you couldn't take it off and put it on a different motherboard, is that correct?
wrong, they can be switched out just like any other component, sound card, video card, hard drive... its just a litte more involved
sadly the best way to learn about building, if you want to do it on your own, is to just dive in. you will make mistakes, you will be scared sh*tless, but its all part of learning, the DIY computer community is still reasonably small compared to the gamer and enthusiast communitys for this reason
Does the stock fan mean only the fans in the case? Or is there just one fan over your processor that really can't cut it? What exactly is a "heatsink"?
stock cooler means a junky excuse for processor cooling that nvidia can include or add for a small price to your processor. the noctua u12p or whatever cooler you choose replaces this entirely
a heatsink is exactly what it sounds like, a large finned piece of metal which takes the best advantage possible of the properties of heat.. long story short, think of it like this:
a metal pole is attached to something hot, you cool the other end of this pole to sink/soak the heat away, and disperse it from the other end of the pipe. the faster you can do this, the cooler you can keep whatever the source of the heat is. the modern solution for this is a huge finned chuck of aluminumesque metal, to which you attach fans to pull and/or push fresh air through, which creates faster heat dissapation
1000w = dual 470s, though technically 750w could work
1200w = dual 480s, though techincally 1000w could work
power supplies are happiest and most effecient operating around 80ish% of thier max load. so while a 750 could work, it is better, safer, and more effecient to go with the reccomended size
I went with i7 950...
dont be fooled by the marketing or the fanboys, the quantifiable differences between an i7 860 and an i7 920 (which is the same as a 950) is pretty much nothing. the only two measurable differences are
-memory bandwidth, which the 860/1156 platform is not starved for and has shown to basically improve nothing at this point.
-support for more PCI lanes, meaning 3 or 4 way SLI will work better with a 920/950 build. since this is so rarely used, its not often mentioned.
For builders on a budget, theres pretty much no reason to go with a 950 over an 860.
Wow, you're still reading this?
yes, i need a new job, anyone hiring? :(
I opted against an SSD...
good call in your price range. if you really want one, i expect prices will get much better over the next year --------------------
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So both of your builds are headed in the right direction. but you seem to have skipped over one of the most important points in the guide: gaming is video power video power video power video power first, and the order of things right now is:
gtx 460, gtx 470, gtx 480, sli gtx 470, sli gtx 480
I know you mentioned adding one later, but aside from the multiple reasons I'm against this that are stated in the guide, and additional point is that this additional card wont be under your DSO warranty, and i think, if you are already going this far, you would want that in the warranty too.. just my opinion from personal building experience
So based on everything here, i think this is what you should look at:
I dont see any purpose in having a 950 build for your budget and needs, i also ndont see a justification for a 1tb drive over a 500gb, dual 470s are very tempting and offer a lot of power for not that much more than a single 480... so
if you want to spring for 470 SLI: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=448045
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maxyme
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Joined: 14 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 12:41pm |
haha nice answer. |
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Steam:pcmaster160
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Qwann
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Joined: 14 Oct 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 2:52pm |
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Actually !ender, I believe I fell into the trap of the configuration pages here on DSO, on the Level 2 configuration, it only allows you to use what I'm assuming, are the processors that work with the 1156 mobo's, while my second build, I used level 3, and there it doesn't allow you to get anything lower than an I7950 (with the 1366 mobo's) . I like the look of your build with just the one 480, especially because it doesn't require the upgrade in the PSU, but I don't understand your choice of the I7 860 over the I5 760, unless it was to get the most bang for my buck while staying under 1800$. Or perhaps to be able to use the noctuo U12, I'm not sure. Nice catch on the 1Tb not really being necessary, right now I most everything onto this mac which has a 160g hd, with 40g of it being partitioned to run XP.
Thanks for taking time to wade through my rather long post. |
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!ender_
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Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
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Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 3:24pm |
There isnt much justification for it, mainly it boils down to the 480 build is under budget, and its the most effective use of the money leftover. It does provide you with 4 additional threads which can make multitasking (or 3d work) faster, but if you want to penny pinch, the 750 and all its brothers would be fine
there isnt enough money left to add a second video card, adding more ram wouldnt do anything, etc
you will actually find that 750s can overclock higher, since they dont use hyperthreading, the tests will show higher ghz with lower temperatures.. but the 860 with an even or lesser overclock will still win any benchmark tests as with hyperthreading it can function as an 8 core processor...
for games spefically, this doesnt matter too much right now, but newer games are finially taking advantage of more than 2 cores so i would imagine that it will not be long before we see games using 4 and up regularly
also worth mentioning, back to multitasking... i alt tab ALL the time when i play games, which will use up my extra cores to some extent allowing for faster tabbing... then if you are nuts like me you can do photoshop and games and music and vent and you really start to get use out of your 8 cores :)
DSO may only let you get a noctua if you get an 860 and up, but it fits anything on the p55 platform and anything on the x86 platform
Edited by !ender_ - 14 Oct 2010 at 3:25pm |
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maxyme
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Joined: 14 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
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Posted: 15 Oct 2010 at 10:01pm |
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haha would be awesome if you could render vids while gaming
what games are using the extra cores? |
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Steam:pcmaster160
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