FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Back for round 2

Post Date: 2022-11-21

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Con10tious View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Con10tious Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Back for round 2
    Posted: 21 Nov 2022 at 8:06am
Getting back to PC gaming since my last DS purchase back in 2011. Anything changed?
Looking for a nice system that will last 5/6 years for new AAA titles, Steam backlog, etc. Was into a lot of FPS with a mix of MMO/WoW and some adventure games. Would appreciate anyone who's kept up with everything to see if there is anything I'm missing or overlooked on this build.

Budget:
~4k

Usage:
High end gaming over the next 5/6 years or so. Currently using a HP Z27 2TB68A8 for work (4k but only 60hz) but eventually will be upgrading to a SAMSUNG Odyssey G7 4k or 1440 monitor or something similar. Not sure how I feel about the curve.

Special Needs:
Wifi connection, all the RGB's (kids love it), something with some room to grow down the road.

Few open questions on this build:
Seems like DDR 5 isn't worth it now but seems better to have it now if needed later. Any downside other than cost?

Power benchmarks on the 4080 seems much better than the monster 4090. Is 850W PS a good fit without overkill?

Went with the trip fan CPU cooler option because the upgrade was minor, any downside to that over the 2? Case seems plenty big enough.

Any special adjustments need to be made with the RGB fans upgrade? Last build I did I added an extra fan but this seems pretty straightforward unless I'm missing something.


Appreciate any and all feedback. Thanks!


Specifications:
ID: 4547811

Chassis Model: Digital Storm Lumos
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7-13700KF (5.4 GHz Turbo) (24-Thread) (16-Core) 3.4 GHz (Raptor Lake)
Motherboard: ASUS Prime Z790-P D5 (Wi-Fi) (Intel Z790 Chipset) (Up to 3x PCI-E Devices) (No SLI) (DDR5) <br><strong></strong>
System Memory: 64GB DDR5 5200MHz Kingston FURY Beast RGB <br><strong></strong>
Power Supply: 850W Digital Storm Performance Series (Modular) (80 Plus Gold) <br><strong></strong>
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Optical Drive: - No Thanks
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (2TB Samsung 970 EVO PLUS) (NVM Express) <br><strong></strong>
Storage Set 2: - No Thanks
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 4080 16GB (VR Ready) <br><strong></strong>
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
HPC Processor: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Triple Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance) <br><strong></strong>
HydroLux Tubing Style: - Not Applicable, I do not have a custom HydroLux liquid cooling system selected
HydroLux Fluid Color: - Not Applicable, I do not have a custom HydroLux liquid cooling system selected
Cable Management: Premium Cable Management (Strategically Routed & Organized for Airflow)
Chassis Fans: Cooler Master MasterFan Halo (RGB Fans) (Remote Control Only) <br><strong></strong>
Internal Lighting: Remote Controlled Advanced LED Lighting System (Multiple RGB Color Modes)
Airflow Control: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: Option Not Available
Boost Processor: Turbo Boost Advanced Automatic Overclocking
Boost Graphics Card(s): - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 11 Home (64-Bit)
Recovery Tools: USB Drive - Windows Installation (Format and Clean Install)
Virus Protection: Windows Defender Antivirus (Built-in to Windows)
Back to Top
Cretae View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6782
  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Nov 2022 at 1:21pm
Unless you have some other uses you don't mention, the 13600KF is all the CPU needed for strictly/mostly gaming. Remember it's 14 cores and 20 threads! The KF designation just means that it doesn't have the pretty useless on-chip video, but it could be overclocked. We dont recommend that at these speeds anymore, but the option remains. The additional cores in the 13700K won't do anything but add heat and up your power bill.

I tend to agree you might as well go for the DDR5 if you want longevity like that, but 64Gb is useless for gaming. 32Gb will last you the life of this system. DDR5 doesn't enhance gaming much now, but will probably be useful down the road.

I think the 850W PSU will be ample if you lighten the load as I'm suggesting. You might want to consider the Corsair for it's extra factory warranty.

The dual fan all-in-one liquid cooler is plenty for the i5 13600. You should also consider the Noctua NH-D15. It will cool every bit as well.

Your primary storage is a PCIe 3 SSD. The 980s are PCIe gen 4, and considerably faster. It's that speed you want for your "C" drive. The most economical combo ther is the 500GB Samsung 980 for Drive 1, and the 2 GB 970 for Drive 2. The 970 is plenty fast enough to load your main games library, but you really should have nearly double the speed from your boot drive the 980 will give you.

The RGB fans look great in that case, and don't need anything added that I know about. Comes with a remote AFAIK.

Hope it helps.   

Edited by Cretae - 21 Nov 2022 at 1:27pm
Back to Top
Con10tious View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Con10tious Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Nov 2022 at 7:07pm
Thanks for the feedback!

Great info on the SSD, those were not a thing last time around so it's good to know the difference and performance upgrade there. Will definitely make that change and take a look at the other options you suggested as well.

I appreciate it.
Back to Top
db188 View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2078
  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 3:23am
just keep in mind that Intel Raptor Lake is on its final leg.  Intel will be switching over to a chiplet design with Meteor Lake (due in 2023) and beyond.  what that means to you is that there won't be any upgrade path if you decide to go with Intel13th Gen platform for your build. 

AMD's AM5 platform will provide the ability to upgrade w/o changing out a new motherboard and memory. 

that being said, whether you buy from Intel or AMD you're pretty much set for i'd venture 6-10 years if you really want to stretch it. 

the weird thing for me is that some of the prices on the AMD cpu sku's are higher than they should be, while on the graphics side of things Nvidia has lost their damn minds!  while being end of line, these Intel 13th Gen procs offer great performance>value.  AMD's soon to launch 7900 XT and XTX will make Nvidia's 4080 and their soon to be rebranded 4070/4070ti irrelevant due their pricing scheme.  AMD doesn't intend to compete with the 4090, so prices will prob remain extremely high for their flagship card.  i'd wait on the 7900XTX for a 4K capable card at $1000 tbh. 
Aventum 3
I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
Back to Top
db188 View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2078
  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 3:38am
even if you aren't planning on overclocking, my concern about the wattage of your PSU selection is that according to this calculator>https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator, you right at the recommended PSU wattage.  gaming won't be like running benchmarks or any other strenuous load, but there are transient spikes and efficiency degradation over the years you'll be using your system.  personally, i like to plan at least a 10% overhead, so i'd recommend bumping that up to a 1000W PSU. 
Aventum 3
I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
Back to Top
Cretae View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6782
  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 4:27am
My friend's assessment of your power needs seem to be rooted in keeping your over-the-top original parts. As it happens, before he posted, I looked at

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator   

and came up with ~560W usage with my revisions. (I even threw in a "high end" sound card to account for something you might add to a PCIe slot.) So that's the key to which PSU you might get. The 251W for your GPU might have been over-estimated because it's surprisingly low, and it's not listed yet in the calculator. I used a 3070 at 220W and added 30W to the final total.

That makes somewhere just north of 600W the calculator's recommendation, which is comfortably under 850W IMHO.    
Back to Top
db188 View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2078
  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Cretae

My friend's assessment of your power needs seem to be rooted in keeping your over-the-top original parts. As it happens, before he posted, I looked at

https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator   

and came up with ~560W usage with my revisions. (I even threw in a "high end" sound card to account for something you might add to a PCIe slot.) So that's the key to which PSU you might get. The 251W for your GPU might have been over-estimated because it's surprisingly low, and it's not listed yet in the calculator. I used a 3070 at 220W and added 30W to the final total.

That makes somewhere just north of 600W the calculator's recommendation, which is comfortably under 850W IMHO.    
i config'd it with a 13600KF (stock) and RTX 3080 (roughly comparable) with the PSU at a recommended 91% efficiency target.   GamersNexus testing/benchmarks re the 4080FE power consumption at stock speeds is pulling around 315W and 343W oc, confirming the comparison to 3080 power consumption.  these are averages on their particular test bench.  i believe Nvidia's own req is a 750W PSU for the 4080FE.

in addition to the 91% power efficiency adj., i confg'd the system around a 24/7 gaming on setting.  as confg'd it was estimating a 733W pull and recommended the EVGA SuperNova P3 1000W 80 Plus Platinum PSU. 

i agree that he'll probably get by fine with a (high quality) 850W PSU, however, a 1000W gives him more longevity/overhead and allows for the possibility of overclocking both the cpu and gpu should he desire to do so. 


Aventum 3
I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
Back to Top
Con10tious View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Con10tious Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 11:07am
You guys are awesome, thank you for all the info!

Going into this I've been really trying to balance current requirements vs longevity overall for the system. The 13700KF to me still seems like the best option even though like you've both pointed out it's probably more than I need today but something that should last the lifespan of this system with a manageable cost difference at this level. I didn't realize this was at the end of the lifespan but hopefully that will play well for stability.

On the GPU side I was waiting for 40 series to see how it compared to last gen and am really curious how stacks up vs AMD. Unfortunately, even if AMD cuts into the 4080 as you said I don't see prices going down significantly once the bar gets set. Obviously the last few years have been bonkers. The hard part is trying to balance how long wait for the next thing vs just letting it rip. Looks like AMD is mid Dec which means availability might be an issue as well.

I feel like these are all good problems to have honestly. It's crazy how much things have evolved since my last build and yet some things are still the same. I had a 1000W PS last time around (DS branded) and it was unfortunately the only part of the system that failed about 4 years in. Not a huge deal to replace but still made me wonder about finding the right fit for these next gen cards. At this point I have no plan to overclock and based on what you've both shown me I feel like if I keep the 13700KF/4080 combo that 1000W is probably the safer bet long term and leaves the door open for any future upgrades like a dedicated sound car like you pointed out. I did add one a few years after my initial build last time but didn't really see much improvement at the time so I ended up returning it.

It seems like the only option for a 1000W is DS, no other brand alternatives and the next level is 1300W. I will probably wait until the AMD GPU's drops in Dec but if the power requirements are close to 1-1 would you still consider 1000W DS a better option than the 850 Corsair offered with this config? Obviously the warranty from DS will cover at least 3 years up front.

Thanks again for all the feedback guys, really appreciate it.

Back to Top
db188 View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2078
  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 11:28am
with AMD 7900 xt and xtx (stupid naming conventions i know) you'll see better power efficiencies than the Nvidia cards.  AMD's "ray tracing" equivalent solution isn't as advanced as Nvidia's but YMMV as to how much that impacts your gaming experience.  on pure performance pushing the frames per second, these AMD cards are gonna give you better bang for buck (i.e. "value"). 

online content providers are pretty universally underwhelmed with the launch of Nvidia's 4080.  the consensus is you're getting 75% of the 4090's performance at 75% of its cost.  that's not good for a new generation launch.  it's about 30% better performance over last gen 3090/3090ti.  the card itself is a fine piece of tech, just priced entirely wrong.  the AMD 7900 XT looks to fall a smidge short of the 4080, but it's not intended to compete with it.  it's intended to compete with the misbranded (now pulled from Nvidia's lineup) 4080 12GB, which will relaunch as either a more appropriately branded 4070/4070ti.  the AMD 7900 XTX is the card that competes against the 4080 (proper).  some early performance reviews show that card actually outperforms the 4080 in some games/tests, falling somewhere between the 4080 and 4090 in raw performance.  what's more is that the 7900 XT is an $800 card, and the 7900 XTX is $1000.  kinda explains why 4080's are "sitting on shelves" and being returned. 

to your question about power draw and PSU selection for your build...if you plan on an AMD platform (cpu+gpu) the 850W should be more than sufficient. 

edit: as far as quality goes i prefer to know exactly what's going into my build, so i generally steer away from rebranded stuff that i can't identify.  i'd put the screws to DS and get an exact component list of what's going into high end builds, but that's me.


Edited by db188 - 22 Nov 2022 at 11:32am
Aventum 3
I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
Back to Top
fwfdfireman View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 18 Aug 2020
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 359
  Quote fwfdfireman Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 3:07pm
I would really wait for AMD to release their cards. You will save a good chunk of money by going AMD, enough to buy extra elsewhere. XTX 24GB,355W TBP at $1000 and XT 16GB, 300W TBP at $900 VS the 4090FE 24GB, 450 watts at $1600 and the 4080FE 16GB, 320 watts at $1200 and those cards are HUGE and consideration has to be given as to whether a case can accommodate such big cards. With AMD there is no issue.

The only thing left is actual testing and results from the AMD cards, which won't come until next month sometime.

Up to you, buy a top of line AMD card and save $200-$600, better power efficiency and all the other new tech AMD is putting into the XT and XTX cards, I just can't see how you could go wrong by waiting a bit. I suspect that the AMD XTX won't be able to compete with the 4090 but will more than likely run neck and neck with the 4080, and better in some titles.

Whatever you decide, best of luck.

You already have some fantastic advise from Cretae and db188. Two smart fellas there and now you have plenty of info to chew on.


Edited by fwfdfireman - 22 Nov 2022 at 3:38pm
Old Gamers Never Die!
Back to Top
Cretae View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6782
  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 6:49pm
Good stuff. Just to clarify, I quick-Googled the RTX 4080 and got back the power spec for the discontinued-before-release(!) 4080 12GB. Oops, my bad, and thanks to db188 for the correction.

I agree with the consensus to check into the AMD cards before pulling the trigger. They do promise a lot to consider, and I'm all about saving hundreds to come close to the other guy's performance. After all the years I've spent doing this, I'm really tired of hearing about 7fps that cost someone 400 bucks. I do prefer Nvidia's lead in both Ray Tracing and "DLSS" vs "Fidelity FX Super Resolution", but I also know that when I'm fully engaged in a game, the purty pictures and 7fps go somewhere I'm not. Not worth big bucks to be sure.    
Back to Top
Con10tious View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4
  Quote Con10tious Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 7:21am
Thanks everyone! Sounds like the best bet here is wait and see what AMD brings to the table now that we've got the info on the Nvidia side. Love everyone's willingness to give feedback.

Thank you so much!
Back to Top
fwfdfireman View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 18 Aug 2020
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 359
  Quote fwfdfireman Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 1:53pm
You are welcome. The really smart guys are great at helping folks out with their questions. I am no where near as knowledgeable as them, but I do read a lot and watch vids on select youtube channels and can chirp in now and then.

And I am with Cretae on the few extra fps for hundreds of dollars. Ray Tracing and DLSS are something nVidia has been up on for some time now. But to be honest, and I know it's probably just me, but again, in watching vids on games with Ray Tracing, I am not seeing a big difference. A beautiful game is just that, a beautiful game and I get immersed in it. I don't think I would notice "RT" unless I was just looking for it. DLSS is great if your machine is struggling with a game in my mind. But when you order a properly spec'd PC for what your intended use is, it will handle a game just fine. Yes, more FPS with DLSS on, BUT, again, can the eye detect the difference between a 70 fps and 120 or higher fps? NO, it can't!

So in my mind, and watch when I spec a new PC here, I have a very strong feeling I will spec a big team RED machine, at lower cost, better efficiency with power (lower thermals) and almost at the same fps. By then, maybe even better. Also, by then, AMD's Fidelity FX Super Resolution might be the preferred thing.

Not trying to sell AMD, buy I am glad to see competition heating up, that's always good for you and me, the consumer.

Edited by fwfdfireman - 23 Nov 2022 at 1:54pm
Old Gamers Never Die!
Back to Top
db188 View Drop Down
DS Veteran
DS Veteran
Avatar
Email address used to purchase matched with forums account email.

Joined: 29 Jul 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2078
  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Con10tious

Thanks everyone! Sounds like the best bet here is wait and see what AMD brings to the table now that we've got the info on the Nvidia side. Love everyone's willingness to give feedback.

Thank you so much!
there's been confirmation from AMD that their CPU prices are very much temporary (for the BF sales) and will return to previous price points.  obstinate of them to be sure, but it is what it is.  if you wait on their video cards, you'll be paying full price on their procs.
Aventum 3
I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 4.296875E-02 seconds.