Budget Quad Build: Help wantedPost Date: 2007-09-08 |
Post Reply
|
Author | |
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply
Topic: Budget Quad Build: Help wanted Posted: 08 Sep 2007 at 9:45pm |
Hi folks. I've been lurking around these forums for the last couple of days, and picked up alot of great info. I'm looking to put together a new system and Digital Storm looks like exactly the sort of business I would like to order from.
After trying multiple configurations, I've run into a brick wall of sorts. I have a *very* strict budget to work within of $1600. $1600 is ok, $1601 isn't. (Had to set a limit somewhere, that's the absolute upper end for me).
I had a build in mind, but after reading many reviews of both the Thermaltake, and the Corsair power supplies ~600W, that one isn't as appealing to me.
Original build:
Copy of Specifications:
Case: Digital Storm Twister PRO (Black Anodized Aluminum Finish) Power Supply: 600W Thermaltake (SLI Compatible) (Silent PurePower Edition) Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz (1066MHz FSB) (8MB Cache) Motherboard: nVidia 680i LT Core 2 Quad (By: eVGA) (nForce 680i SLI) Memory: 2GB DDR2 Corsair at 667MHz (Dual Channel) Floppy / Media: Sony 1.44MB Floppy (Black Edition) Hard Drive 1: 320GB (Western Digital / Seagate) (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) Hard Drive 2: - No Thanks Raid Option: - No Thanks Optical Drive 1: DVD-ROM/CD-ROM (DVD Reader 16x / CD Reader 40x) Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) Network Card: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Modem: - No Thanks Video Card: nVidia GeForce 8600GTS 512MB (By: eVGA / Asus) (PCI-Express) TV Tuner: - No Thanks Sound Card: Motherboard Multi-Channel High Definition Audio (7.1 Channel) Physics Card: - No Thanks Cooling: Air Cooled Stage 3 (Silent Artic Cooling (TwisterBoost Overclocked) Case Lighting: - No Thanks Round Cables: Enhanced Interior Air Flow (Optical Drive & Floppy Cables (Black Edition) User Manual: Personalized Platinum Digital Storm Binder (Includes Paperwork/Benchmarks/CDs/Manuals) Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based) Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks LCD Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks my keyboard comes with a mouse Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty Support: Lifetime Toll-Free Platinum Care Technical Support This build came in just under my absolute cap of $1600, and looked like a good place to upgrade from as I could afford it (additional 8600GTS for sli fun, additional/faster RAM as DDR3 pushes down the price on DDR2, new monitor, etc, etc, etc.) I upgrade about once every 4 to 5 years, so a Quad looked like it had the most legs down the stretch til my next upgrade.
After reading some very mixed reviews on the Thermaltake PSU's, however (including one fellow that apparently almost set his pad on fire ), and positively glowing reviews on the Corsair PSU, I am looking for a way to squeeze in under my 1600 dollar wire and still keep the 620W Corsair.
I am also a spineless wonder when it comes to any sort of overcloking on my own, so I would *much* rather have a professional do that.
So....
Questions:
1. How much does the improved cabling increase airflow, and is that and easy cut to make?
2. If I went down to Vista Basic, can I simply use an upgrade on the basic version DS would install, or would I have to purchase a full retail box and reinstall?
Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated . >
Edited by Tyler Lowe - 08 Sep 2007 at 9:45pm |
|
skyR
Newbie Digital Storm Apprentice Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
Quote Reply Posted: 08 Sep 2007 at 10:01pm |
$1501
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=78710 8600 is a weak card so I don't recommend getting it unless you are going to use this PC for basic stuff. Get Windows Vista Premium. It is not worth it to upgrade from Vista Basic to Premium (Microsoft charges ~$80). |
|
|
|
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 12:10am |
Well SkyR, it's probably important to understand I'll be upgrading from a P4 @1.59Ghz, 1Gig PC230 DDR2 RAM and X700Pro Radeon 256MB AGP graphics card. I could be way off in my estimation of the 8600GTS' graphics power, but I am assuming it's more powerful than the card I'm squeeking by on right now. I take it from the configuration you posted that the cabling is an easy cut in your opinion? Also, do you feel the 600W Thermaltake is getting a bad rap? Will it allow for the wiggle room I need throughout a 4 year expected use? I got the impression it was a bit weak (and might explode ). I have read many of your posts, and I understand your affinity for the 8800 series card. That 320MB card was my first choice when assembling the system. I do not see any benchmark for the 8600 GTS 512MB in any of the chart's at Tom's Hardware. The DS Pro series default is 2x 8600 512MB. Does this offer less performance than the single 320 MB 8800GTS series? Price over time is less of an issue than what I can budget in at the time of purchase. I understand that purchasing 2 512MB cards is less cost effective over time, but it would allow for a functional system to use in the imeadiate future for me until I could drop in another card. Between removing the improved cabling job, removing the floppy (someone told me w/ Vista I will no longer need this floppy for any reason including restore and other bootdisk functions) and a downsize of HDD I can meet the required figure and still keep the Corsair PSU in the build. Thanks for taking the time to load in that bare essentials configuration. It was nice to have a clean slate to walk through all of the decisions I had made to reach the build I posted, and revisit the "why's".
|
|
skyR
Newbie Digital Storm Apprentice Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 12:54am |
Thermaltake 600W is a decent PSU, it gets the job done and its quiet.
The 8600 GTS are on the charts; they are near the bottom, it's probably why you don't see them. The 8800 GTS outperforms SLI 8600 GTS, and it is ~$150 cheaper! The 8800 GTS will be able to run games on high settings for 2-3 more years before you need to upgrade or add another for SLI. |
|
|
|
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 1:28am |
Ok, checked the charts again. It looks like perhaps the memory is a missprint on the charts. The Card is listed as an 8600GTS 256MB. I'd have to agree if that's the correct listing for the 512MB card. Granted, that's a benchmark, not a real app, but still it doesn't bode well.
Given that:
Copy of Specifications:
Case: Digital Storm Twister PRO (Black Anodized Aluminum Finish) Power Supply: 600W Thermaltake (SLI Compatible) (Silent PurePower Edition) Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz (1066MHz FSB) (8MB Cache) Motherboard: nVidia 680i LT Core 2 Quad (By: eVGA) (nForce 680i SLI) Memory: 2GB DDR2 Corsair at 667MHz (Dual Channel) Floppy / Media: - No Thanks Hard Drive 1: 250GB (Western Digital / Seagate) (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) Hard Drive 2: - No Thanks Raid Option: - No Thanks Optical Drive 1: DVD-ROM/CD-ROM (DVD Reader 16x / CD Reader 40x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Network Card: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Modem: - No Thanks Video Card: nVidia GeForce 8800GTS 320MB (By: eVGA / Asus) (PCI-Express) TV Tuner: - No Thanks Sound Card: Motherboard Multi-Channel High Definition Audio (7.1 Channel) Physics Card: - No Thanks Cooling: Air Cooled Stage 3 (Silent Artic Cooling (TwisterBoost Overclocked) Case Lighting: - No Thanks Round Cables: - No Thanks User Manual: Personalized Platinum Digital Storm Binder (Includes Paperwork/Benchmarks/CDs/Manuals) Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based) Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks LCD Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks my keyboard comes with a mouse Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty Support: Lifetime Toll-Free Platinum Care Technical Support This build puts me at $1589.
I do understand the performance hit I take going from the 800Mhz RAM to the 667Mhz. The room this will be in can get quite warm, and a case with good cooling is very important to me as a result.
On the motherboard... I also noticed in your original build you selected the 650i version. While that board is a bit cheaper, doesn't it's support for RAM stop at PC800? Is this true, or has there been a BIOS update that allows for support up to 1200 as is the case with the 680i? I am thinking 3 or 4 years down the road even the fastest DDR2 is going to be struggling to keep up with programs written with DDR3 in mind, and PC800 is going to have about as much appeal as PC400 does now.
If the MoBo will be fine:
Sorry about the very limited nature of my computer knowledge, and thanks for the replies, they are greatly appreciated.
Edited by Tyler Lowe - 09 Sep 2007 at 1:37am |
|
Me
Guest |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 8:51am |
I have no qualms against thermaltake PSU's... I've always used them and I'm using a 800w Toughpower right now. :)
|
|
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 10:36am |
The knocks I've read against the silent purepower PSU's didn't apply to the toughpower series. I've normally heard great things about thermaltake, but every company has it's Edsel.
After reading for hours about the lack of a true mid range graphics card this year, I may drop down to a DX 9 card, concentrate my budget on the rest of the system, and hope for better graphics card performance ~$250 in the next round of cards when the 9 series and competing Ati offerings are released.
|
|
skyR
Newbie Digital Storm Apprentice Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2220 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 11:22am |
RAM speed will give little to no performance increase noticeable to the eye. All the ram speed has to do is match the FSB of the CPU and it is good. Overclockers want a little headspace above the FSB so they go for 800MHz and 1066MHz. But any regular user who does not plan on upgrading is fine with 667MHz.
The 650i and 680i motherboards can not support DDR3 so you don't even have to worry about it. Remember that 650i does not support SLI. So have that in mind when you are selecting a motherboard. The motherboard has manufacturer support for 800MHz ram but you can put any DDR2 ram in the slot and just change the BIOS. If you put 1066MHz ram into a motherboard that only supports 800MHz, the motherboard will underclock the ram to 800MHz if you do not change the BIOS. |
|
|
|
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 11:48am |
Thanks again skyR.
I read the sticky on overclocking after I made that post, including your post on the lack of value added to any system in moving up to 1066Mhz or higher RAM from 800.
Since I do not plan on running an Sli configuration of very high end graphics cards (looks like you'd need 850W minimum and preferably a 1000W PSU to consider that to begin with) looks like you have a solid reason to point me towards a 650i motherboard.
On the graphics card, I now understand much more fully why you've been hammering away so hard in pushing people towards that 320MB 8800 series card. It looks very much like the choice currently is between ignoring DX10 completely for the present and snapping up one of the clearance priced DX9 cards, or moving up to an 8800 series . This is very hard on midrange users like me, who are trying to work within tight budget constraints, yet still provide for the emerging DX10 technology.
I'm still a month out from my planned order date so I have some time to gain better understanding and weigh carefully my options before settling on a final build.
|
|
Bill the Cat
DS Veteran Forum Bitch! Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1150 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 12:34pm |
I feel your pain. I'm using a 2 MHz P4 with less than a Gig of RAM right now.
Swap an E6750 for the Q6600 $<103>
Swap the 680i LT for a 680i rev. A1 $ 88
Swap 2 Gig for 1 Gig of 667 MHz RAM $< 50>
Swap Stage 3 for Stage 1 cooling $< 74>
----------
SAVE $ 139
That's pretty rock bottom. Put back the 2 Gig of RAM and you still save $89 bucks. Okay then put back the Stage 3 cooling/overclocking, if you insist.
I guess my point is I'd trade the Q6600 CPU for the better motherboard.
CPUs and RAM can be upgraded easily when they're cheaper. Sure, motherboards can be replaced, but it's a significantly bigger step. Perhaps others will disagree, but if you're not willing to overclock yourself, I'll bet you're unlikely to replace a motherboard. Otherwise, you'd be building this system yourself.
Finally, if you're going to overclock you CPU the extra cooling and configuration options of the 680i Rev. A1 are better suited for that job.
Just my 2 cents, which these days isn't worth squat. Edited by Bill the Cat - 09 Sep 2007 at 12:35pm |
|
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply Posted: 09 Sep 2007 at 6:09pm |
All good points Bill. I think right now, the E6750 overclock offered by DS is probably the best bang for the buck, and maybe one of the best values offered by any company I looked over.... for current games. The Quads will. I think, start to see wider use as both Vista and DX10 mature, so while that 6750 would be my top pick if my upgrade cycle were once every 2 years, but that is not the case. You're quite correct on my willingness/ability to build a system on my own. If I were willing to seat a new CPU to a MoBo, mount aftermarket cooling options or able to overclock myself, I'd be elbow deep in my own build right now. Given that, I'm looking to the Quad as the basis for a system that may have an additional year of use I could squeeze from it before having to do this again (cross fingers). After looking over everything yet again, one of the easiest cuts for me to make turned out to be the Vista Home Premium. I have no doubt that once service pack 1 is released, Vista will improve greatly, but in the here and now, XP is still a better OS performance wise. If I follow correctly the previous comments on multipliers, the 1066 FSB on the Q6600 and the 667 RAM are the same base speed, so they should work fine together. Guess I'll have to wait and see what comments DS has on that specifically. after reading this review http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMwMiwsLGhlbnRodXNpYXN0 I feel pretty confident that the LT version of the 680i EVGA board will more than meet my needs, but again, I'll have to see how DS feels about it given my twisterboost selection of the Q6600.Granted, it would be great to toss in the A1 revision, it's a very nice MoBo, one of the best for the price right now from what I've gathered. Having a budget to work within forces some hard choices, choices that are both easier and harder to make with the current pricing on components.
This really is the best of times and the worst of times for a midrange buyer. It's one of the best times I have ever seen in terms of motherboard performance for the dollar and processor power for the dollar, and the worst time I can remember for the midrange buyer when it comes to graphics cards. There really just isn't one. You either go high end or entry level.
At this point, I'm leaning this way:
Things I will miss from my orignal planned build:
the A1 revision- really nice Motherboard, losing that built in cooling to save some $$$ was a tough hit to take.
Vista- I can live with this one, but it still means giving Microsoft even more of my hard earned cash at some later point in time (like they haven't already bled me for enough)
The Enhanced Cabling- It's small thing, but with the windowed case, the nicer cabling would have been something I would have enjoyed from an asthetics point of view. I may not know much about modern computers, but I do have an electronics background. Little things like this are something I appreciate.
The soft blue glow of the cathode light- Another tiny, tiny thing that is just pleasing to the eye, and silly as it probably is, always gave me an impression of "high end".
I'm sure I'll quickly be over all of those hits when I boot up for the first time on a system that is not close to 7 years old .
|
|
Alex
Admin Group Digital Storm Supervisor Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 16314 |
Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 2007 at 2:30am |
Great config, as of right now, we are able to push the Q6600 to 3.15GHz with the Stage 3 Air Cooling.
|
|
Tyler Lowe
Newbie Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 2007 at 11:10am |
Thanks for taking a look Alex, it took me a while to prioritize, squeeze everything in, and arrive at something I'll be happy with under budget.
This community is great. Very helpful. Escpecially skyR who was very patient with my low level of understanding on the technicals.
I tried to submit the build for review, and got an error yesterday.
Also, when attempting to save the configuration, there was no confirmation screen or email sent out to me.
I'm not sure if that's a firewall setting on my end or a problem with your site.
BTW: Nothing you folks do not already know, but I checked everywhere on the net for a builder for my system, and DS is far and away one of the best values, even without the rave reviews of your customer service. The reports of your comittment to quality and customer service got me to check you out, the level of value for the dollar sealed the deal. Can't wait to place my order.
|
|
Jeff
Groupie Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 68 |
Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 2007 at 11:18am |
as of right now, we are able to push the Q6600 to 3.15GHz with the Stage 3 Air Cooling
Sweet!!
|
|
EdH63
DS Veteran Joined: 01 Sep 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1826 |
Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 2007 at 11:33am |
This works for me! |
|
commast
Guest |
Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 2007 at 8:50pm |
Good work DS, can't hardly wait for my pc to arrive.
|
|
Alex
Admin Group Digital Storm Supervisor Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 16314 |
Quote Reply Posted: 10 Sep 2007 at 11:33pm |
Your welcome!
|
|
Post Reply |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |