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Building the best $7000 system

Post Date: 2008-08-22
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paraguy1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 340 		  Quote paraguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Building the best $7000 system
    Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 9:27pm
I am new here and looking to build a new system. Money isnt a problem but I dont want to spend over $7000 Every time I build it it comes out over 8 thousand. I know some but I dont know every in and out of a computer like I dont know what is with the 64 bit OS compared to the 32. And I think I would rather not have any overclocking involved either. I am in a wheelchair so constant upgrading is kind of a hassle for me pulling out my case ect. That is why I like to build a system I wont need to upgrade right away. My latest build is code 177296 but I wouild like to still get cheaper any ideas where I should cut back? I was going to go with cyberpower but I like what I have seen here. Thanks in advance everyone for any ideas.
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 9:59pm
well sounds like you don't know what you are doing but you do like it to be loaded.

Whats up paraguy1, welcome to DS, you are like me load it up with the best you got

but here is the problem, tho money is no object, we still don't want to pay for things that won't really matter to us.

So question is this: what are you gonna be using the PC for? are you a gamer like the rest of this forum or are you a power user like me

Gamers are big on graphic cards and spend over a thousands on graphic cards.

For me that would be a waste, as I do have big monitors (24" and 30" and 50") but a good 256 or heck a 512MB card would run them great.

So before I can tell you what to keep and what to lose, tell me what you gonna do with it.

FYI I'm waiting for Nehalem and going to be building a dual Nehalem chip workstation that will be OC-ed and that will run me a bit over what you have

Edited by DST4ME - 22 Aug 2008 at 10:00pm

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Iraq Now View Drop Down
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Posts: 175 		  Quote Iraq Now Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 11:06pm
Hello paraguy1, and welcome to the boards!! I went over your ticket and made some minor modifications, and got the price down a bit. Now, before you even think about puchasing this build let a few more people go over it and tweak it some more. There are plenty of people here who actually like helping others. Its kinda strange, especially for a message board. I haven't seen a single flame post....Sorta weird.

Anywho, here is the build that I thought you might like.
177316

Edited by Iraq Now - 22 Aug 2008 at 11:59pm
"Thick as your thumb?Now, you can't do much damage with that now can you? Maybe it should have been rule of wrist instead!" Boondock Saints
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paraguy1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 340 		  Quote paraguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 11:42pm
I am going to be using this computer as a gaming machine but it also will be my main computer. After gaming it will be used to surf the internet and also manage my money with etrade and other basic tasks. I will also be purchasing a new 27'' monitor or maybe even a 30'' if I have the space for it so I would also like recommendations for a new moniter because I dont know to much about what is the best one right now. I am thinking either a dell or samsung but I am not sure what to get. By the way what is Nehalem? Is that the next chip? And if so when is that due out? Because my old system can make due for at least a month or two and I kind of want the next gen nvidia graphics card anyways but  I am not sure when that will be out either.
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paraguy1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 340 		  Quote paraguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 11:44pm
Hey Iraq your link didnt work for me it went to a page with different builds but when I tried to go to one it said page missing.
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Thanhphan View Drop Down
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Posts: 337 		  Quote Thanhphan Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by paraguy1

I am going to be using this computer as a gaming machine but it also will be my main computer. After gaming it will be used to surf the internet and also manage my money with etrade and other basic tasks. I will also be purchasing a new 27'' monitor or maybe even a 30'' if I have the space for it so I would also like recommendations for a new moniter because I dont know to much about what is the best one right now. I am thinking either a dell or samsung but I am not sure what to get. By the way what is Nehalem? Is that the next chip? And if so when is that due out? Because my old system can make due for at least a month or two and I kind of want the next gen nvidia graphics card anyways but  I am not sure when that will be out either.
  
  Wellcome to DSO, paraguy1!
    just give our sale staff a call or use live chat. They will able to answer all your questions & save much more money for you.
    Enjoy your time with our community. Again, YOU dream it, We build it!!Big%20smile
"Life is What You Make of it"
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paraguy1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 340 		  Quote paraguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Aug 2008 at 11:51pm
I found out what nehalem is it looks like it will be released this fall. My next question is will it be a big leap from what is available right now and should I wait? since my main use will be for gaming I heard this new chip isnt really a gaming chip but who really knows unless you work for intel. Does anyone here know? 
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Iraq Now View Drop Down
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Posts: 175 		  Quote Iraq Now Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 12:02am
Sorry about that Para, the build number is 177316. However, I agree with Thanhphan. Just give DS a call. You will be able to speak to a live person (unusual in this day and age I know, but DS is a strange company) and they are all very knowledgeable. The will be able to hook you up with whatever you need man.

Matt
"Thick as your thumb?Now, you can't do much damage with that now can you? Maybe it should have been rule of wrist instead!" Boondock Saints
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 12:36am
Originally posted by paraguy1

I found out what nehalem is it looks like it will be released this fall. My next question is will it be a big leap from what is available right now and should I wait? since my main use will be for gaming I heard this new chip isnt really a gaming chip but who really knows unless you work for intel. Does anyone here know? 


Yes its the next chip out, it should be out in September, it will have a big difference, it will be the first true quad core that has 4 separate cores instead of 2 dual cores stuck together.

other things over penryn are:

Performance and power improvements

It has been reported that Nehalem will have a focus on performance, which accounts for the increased core size.[10] Compared to Penryn, Nehalem will have:
1.1x to 1.25x the single-threaded performance or 1.2x to 2x the multithreaded performance at the same power level
30% lower power usage for the same performance
According to a preview from AnandTech "expect a 20-30% overall advantage over Penryn with only a 10% increase in power usage. It looks like Intel is on track to delivering just that in Q4."[11]
Core-wise, clock-for-clock, Nehalem will provide a 15%-20% increase in performance compared to Penryn. [3]

PC Watch found that a Nehalem "Gainestown" processor has 1.6x the SPECint_rate2006 integer performance and 2.4x the SPECfp_rate_2006 floating-point performance of a 3.0 GHz Xeon X5365 "Clovertown" quad-core processor.[10]

A 2.93 GHz Nehalem "Bloomfield" system has been used to run a 3DMark Vantage benchmark and gave a CPU score of 17,966.[12] The 2.66 GHz variant scores 16,294. A 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo E6600 scores 4,300.[13]

AnandTech tested the Intel QuickPath Interconnect (4.8 GT/s version) and found the copy bandwidth using triple-channel 1066 MHz DDR3 was 12.0 GB/s. A 3.0 GHz Core 2 Quad system using dual-channel 1066 MHz DDR3 achieved 6.9 GB/s.[14]

Overclocking will be possible with Bloomfield processors and the X58 chipset. The Lynnfield and Havendale processors will use a PCH removing the need for a northbridge chipset. [15]


Some say it may not make a big difference in gaming, but I don't see how a faster chip can't make a difference in your gaming.

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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 12:42am
Nehelam will not be a large increase for gaming. The primary increase in performance will be in HPC (server) and  database performance. The only real advantage it poses for gaming is a reduction in heat produced and power consumed. That is the latest take on the chip from industry insiders. I believe this is likely to be the case. I have seen some early benchmarks, and it appears to have a very small performance increase over Penryn for gaming. It is always possible that the CPU is simply waiting for the right gaming code to the written to take proper advantage of Hyperthreading, so perhaps in the future, this could change.
 
I would suggest discussing the possibility of overclock with DSO. This is the only point I saw in your OP that I thought might be a result of limited OC exposure/direct experience. Done correctly, you are looking at a tremendous performance increase at no risk to your system.  The + series of G200 are rumored for late September/early Oct. Time will tell.
 
If I were going to build to game on a 30" monitor, I would use a CrossfireX platform, but as you did specifiy NVidia, I would do something like this:
 
 
Things I did not include:
The Fatal!ty sound card. Creative's driver support for Vista, frankly sucks. The Razer card has superb sound quality, and the drain on CPU resources is so slight it is not worth mention.
The Bigfoot network card. Very marginal value IMO. You will not see any improvement, at all for the majority of online gaming.
 
I did include a CPU overclock. Again, this is something I believe is worth your time to discuss with a professional at DSO. It can have a significant impact on your system's performance, and can be done without inducing any more wear and tear on a CPU than running it at stock clocks in a typical OEM build.


Edited by Tyler Lowe - 25 Aug 2008 at 1:13am
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Posts: 19 		  Quote KP Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 12:54am
 I would think a long long time before going with CP PC.  I'm really happy to have found this company and group and looking forward to getting my new system.
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Posts: 221 		  Quote Randy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 1:14am
Well considering you are not getting any Overclocking.I would recommended not getting the Q9770 and go with the Q9550. Only real difference is the q9770 is an unlock multiplier and the 3.2 ghz and 1600 fsb. Which in my eyes isn't worth the 1 grand extra cost. "SHRUGS" So that saves you 1 grand right there. Aside from that everything is good. But I would go with the 64bit OS to utilize all that ram. Here is the the Ticket # 177325 I came up with. Only changes are the processor and the OS. You may want to reconsider the Bigfoot ethernet card not worth it either in my eyes. That saves you another $279. Which would bring it down to $6772.


Edited by Randy - 23 Aug 2008 at 1:21am
Intel E6750
2gbs 800mhz Ram
8800 gt oc 660/1900
320gb hd + 500gb
Dual boot - Ubuntu 8.04, Xfce, Compis-fusion & Windows 7 Ultimate x64
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 1:20am
@ Tyler Lowe, this is the article you are talking about and what you call industry insiders

First let me say I can't call anandtech, industry insiders to the extent that I follow what they say blindly. second of all the statement about Nehalem is made without ever actually testing the chip.

lets not jump on the bandwagon before we get some actual facts. and not follow a website/s that starts by saying:

And no, I have not seen any tests before I type this. Nehalem is about improving HPC, Database, and virtualization performance, and much less about gaming performance. Maybe this will change once games get some heavy physics threads, but not right away.


now having said that, the article keeps saying that games are more about cache and etc. But we all know that games love cache but more then cache they love clock speed, aka effectiveness per clock speed,we know Nehalem is gonna be atleast 10% better then current penryn.

now thats the clock speed, we all know the new games are not made for p4 or other chips, instead when developers write the games them do so for the current things in market, in short, this time next year, plenty of game are gonna take advantage of Nehalem.

So lets not go around stating facts that don't exist yet. Lets atleast have somebody actually test the chip and see what it can do in reality.

Edited by DST4ME - 23 Aug 2008 at 1:22am

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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 2:18am

Actually, I watched the webcast by the engineer in charge of the project, and thought the Anandtech article would be easier to digest for most than a 34 minute long dissertation by an Intel engineer. My take on what Rajesh Kumar had to say about Nehelam, is that the focus is on efficiency, and a reduction in the wasteful use of energy that overclocking a quadcore as we have to this point produces. Naturally, I am not an engineer, so perhaps I misunderstand.

However, I agree, games do like cache. Since you have been following Nehelam for so long, I would find it extremely useful, if  you could explain how well current games will react to a decreased L1 and L2 cache, and the addition of an L3 cache, for which we have only one example currently - Phenom.
 
Anandtech is but one of many sources where I have found information on Nehelam, and speculation as to it's focus and capabilities. Obviously, I have missed some of the articles that have lead you to believe so strongly that Nehelam will represent a large increase in gaming performance. For this I apologize. If you have additional links to provide the OP to help him make a more informed decision, please provide them. It would be of benefit to us all. I am keenly interested in reading additional articles on the subject.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 2:27am
I never said it would represent a large increase, all I said is that everybody is speculating, this is all in theory, even if I spent a half an hour on here explaining what I think, at the end of the day its what I think and not a fact.

you were saying that "it appears to have a very small performance increase over Penryn for gaming", and I'm saying that: A.we don't know that for sure, B. this time next year there will be games that will take advantage of Nehalem architecture.

so we can go back and forth, but at the end of the day its all theory. The way you represent it, is sounds like if you are a gamer, Nehalem is a waste of your time, which is not true and even if it was then its temporary.


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Posts: 289 		  Quote TomD Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 3:15am
Welcome to the forums Paraguy.
 
I think Randy's build looks great. Just thought I would add a couple comments.
 
There is always new tech coming, so always a reason to wait. I would fall back to the basics - if your old machine isn't meeting your needs, then its time to replace and do the best you can with what is available today. If your current machine is working reasonably well and meeting your needs, then its not a bad idea to wait for the "next best thing".
 
On specifics:
 
1. All the 27" Monitors I have seen run at the same resolution as 24" Monitors(1920x1200) but the pixels are larger and it doesn't look that great to my eyes. I would go with a 30" if you can afford it, or stick with a 24". Of course that is personal preference. It's best if you can see for yourself before buying to see how it looks to you if you have the ability. (I live in the sticks, so don't have the luxury of a local showroom with high-end monitors).
 
2. I agree to drop the Bigfoot network card. The difference is not noticable and not worth paying extra for.
 
3. You can also save over $600 by dropping from 1800 RAM to 1600 RAM. This will have very little decrease in performance if any at all. The CPU just can't keep up with the RAM at those speeds already, so faster doesn't help much.
 
4. I agree with Tyler that you should consider overclocking the CPU. This has a very noticable speed increase and costs just $45. Since you are going with the liquid cooling it will make even a more noticable speed increase. DSO knows what they are doing and the overclock won't cause any harm to your equipment. They also warranty the system for 3 years, so you have that additional protection as well.
 
5. If you don't want to overclock, I agree with Randy to stick with the 9550 chip - the Extreme line of chips is primarily designed for overclocking. Even if you do overclock, the extra $1,000 is alot to pay for the 9770. An overclocked 9550 will substantially outperform the 9770 at stock speed.
 
Take care,
 
Tom
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 4:55am
I just like to voice out also that you should overclock it and get liquid cooling, its all under warranty, not that anything would go wrong to begin with. Most of the systems these guys sell are OC-ed and as you see nobody is saying my chip or mombo or anything else for that matter has gone bad due to OC.

Edited by DST4ME - 23 Aug 2008 at 4:56am

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paraguy1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 340 		  Quote paraguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 12:44pm
Thanks a bunch guys for your input. Everyone opened my eyes to the overclocking. I have always thought not to push things beyond what they were designed for but after all the forums comments and talking to some of my computer friends they all agree to overclock since it is under warrenty. Still dont know if I want to wait if I do it will be in October the latest.Hopefully by then the next gen video card and processor chip will be out but the price will also be up for new stuff as well.
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Posts: 340 		  Quote paraguy1 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 1:01pm
Hi everyone, thanks again for all the input this site is great. My next question is what is the difference on the 64 bit OS compared to the 32 and I heard the 64 bit does not work with everything on the internet is that true? Because I dont know anything about running the 64 so could someone please explain. Also is the solid state drive worth the money I added it to my new build. I am now under 8000 thanks to everyone here but its still pricey. Here is my new build 177375. Thanks in advance.
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Posts: 411 		  Quote workingman Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 2:38pm

is a 64 bit system better? hmm well it has encryption on it for better security..it utilizes more memory....most things can run on 64 bit now...of course some things dont..depends on you and what software you want to run on your computer..i have games that wont load on vista..but im gonna dual boot my computer...i dont want to give my old games up so i will be running xp also....im waiting for core i7....with its turbo mode..i think it will rock..dont know when next gen video cards will be out for nvidia..they just released new ones..and im in no way a fan of amd-ati..so cant say much..except their new card just came out or is about to..not really sure...Confused
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Posts: 411 		  Quote workingman Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 2:40pm
solid state drives...hmmm could be the next best thing ....but personally..its the write speeds that hold me back from buying one..they are considerably slower than a conventional hard disk drive...that fact alone makes me want to stick with hdd's at least for now..
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Posts: 289 		  Quote TomD Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 2:53pm
Paraguy,
 
Looks like you have it narrowed down to an awesome rig.
 
About your question on the SSDs, alot of people have been having problems with the OCZ 128MB drive "hanging up" when it gets bogged down with too many read/writes at once.
 
Here is a link to the support forum:
 
 
I would recommend giving it a good read before you purchase. I have been considering upgrading to Windows 64-bit in conjunction with the OCZ SSD drive but have decided to wait for now until SSD technology matures a bit more.
 
In my opinion a safer choice, and one that would perform about as well would be the 300GB Western Digital Velociraptor for your OS drive. Its the fastest consumer hard drive on the market right now by a good margin. About 35% faster than the previous King of the Hill - the 150GB Western Digital Raptor per a recent article in Maximum PC Magazine. This drive has gotten nothing but raves since its release a couple months ago. I added one to my rig recently and its fantastic.
 
RE: 64-bit Vista
 
Given your configuration, you almost have to go with 64-bit Windows.
 
32-bit operating systems can only address 4GB of RAM, and the RAM in your Videocards subtracts from that. Since you have 2 Videocards with 1MB memory each, your machine will only have about 2GB available, maybe even less. If you go 32-bit, you might as well drop to 2GB of RAM since the other 2 won't be utilized.
 
The only web issue I am aware of with Vista 64 bit is lack of support for Flash. Maybe one of the 64-bit owners out there can shed more light on that. The current consensus seems to be to go with 64-bit. I regret ignoring there advice when I ordered a few months ago.
 
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Aug 2008 at 5:08pm
I am currently running Vista 64 Bit Ultimate, and so far have found nothing I cannot run. With two graphics cards installed each with 512MB of GDDR, my CPU can address roughly 2GB in a 32bit OS (I dual boot with Vista 32 bit premium). Every bit of device memory must be mapped, so your situation with 2 1GB cards, as TomD has indicated would very likely leave you with less than 2GB of RAM in Vista.
 
Really like your new build BTW.
 
The solid state drives are still very new. They are quiet in comparison to Raptors, but with regards to whether or not they have issues, the best people to ask are the techs at DSO. Whereas any of us might own a single SSD, or know someone that does, the DSO staff has probably dealt with hundreds of systems with SSD's installed by now. No amount of reading or research can match that kind of hands on experience. In your place, I would take advantage of that knowledge. Smile


Edited by Tyler Lowe - 23 Aug 2008 at 5:21pm
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