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Zardoz8719 
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 Topic: Can't help but wonder...
Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 5:59pm |
Just received my change of status update… and was comparing it to another forum members stats posted a couple of days ago. @ Mouseguard…hope you don’t mind me using your stats for comparison…no harm meant/intended. I copied them the day you posted…because your build closely resembles mine—except for some obvious changes I made/have. It’s the differences between our two machines that intrigues me (and maybe others…): Zardoz8719: Mouseguard: Chasis: HAF 932 same… Processor: i7 920 same… Mobo: Classified EVGA X58 LE Edition Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin same… PSU: 1000w Corsair same… Processor: i7 920 same… HDD1: 120 SSD Vertex same… HDD2: 500GB Western same… Video: 2x SLI dual 275’s same… Extreme Cooling: H20 stage 3 AIR: Stage 2: Noctua NH-U12P Frostbite dual loop CPU & 2 GPU’s Chasis: upgrade Zalman fans standard chasis fans Boost Processor: Stage 1 same… Graphics boost: no same… Memory Boost: Fan kit only same… T-shirt: yes no ***ADDITIONAL CHANGES/MODIFICATIONS TO Zardoz8719 machine include dual- rad on CPU…and installation of HeatKiller 3.0 waterblock on CPU. ---------------------------------------------------------------- First off, I fully admit my ignorance as to the meaning/validity of the following numbers… I have highlighted (yellow) items where the two systems/stats differ. I guess my first question would be…why, are there such differences between mine with all the additional cooling measures…showing higher idle and load temps?? Can anyone shed some light on this for me…?? My primary objective was to have a cool-quiet running machine…the extra goodies don’t seem to have helped?? ---------------------------------------------------------------- The following is the e-mail I received…with comparisons to “mouseguard’s” system annotated in “blue”: The status of your amazing new Digital Storm system has been updated!
Stage 7: (QA Passed)
Your order has successfully passed our stringent quality assurance process. Everything from top to bottom on your purchase has been verified by an experienced Digital Storm technician.
------------------------------------------- Testing Details By: Thanh
-------------------------------------------
Processor Temperatures
Name: Zardoz8719 Mouseguard:
Idle: 48C 45C
Overnight Load: 79C 70C
Important Notice: Overclocked systems will definitely run hotter than stock units. Your unit has been tested to be fully stable in our stress-test facility at these temperatures.
Overclocked Processor Settings
Zardoz8719: Mouseguard:Processor Speed GHz: 3.5 3.5
CPU Multiplier: 20 20
Voltage CPU VCore: 1.28750 1.318
VDroop Control: No Yes
i7 - BCLK MHz: 167 167
i7 - Voltage QPI\DRAM: A auto
i7 - Voltage QPI\PLL: A 1.25
i7 - Voltage CPU VTT: 100 175
i7 - Voltage IOH Vcore: 1.275 1.35
i7 - Voltage ICH Vcore: A auto
i7 - Voltage IOH/ICH I/O: A auto
i7 - PWM Frequency: 800 800
780i/790i - Memory Clock Mode: ---
780i/790i - CPU FSB MHz: ---
780i/790i - Voltage FSB: ---
780i/790i - Voltage SPP: ---
780i/790i - Voltage MCP: ---
Overclocked Memory Settings Actual Memory Speed MHz: 1333 I7 – Memory Ratio MHz: 1067 – This is a ratio that is multiplied by the BCLK multiplier in order to produce a final memory speed of 1333 Voltage memory ((i7 – Dimm Voltage): auto Timings (CAS-tRCD-tRCD-tRP-tRAS): 9-9-9-24
Motherboard BIOS: S610 SZ2F
Video Card Driver: 186.18 186.18
Chipset Driver: CD CD Sound Card Driver: CD CD
--------------------------------------------------------------
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DST4ME
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:11pm |
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I'm thinking its your mobo/cpu combo, the classified is running a bit warmer, do you both have HT enabled? Your chip has better vcore and etc settings.
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:12pm |
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Couldn't tell you...I don't have the system yet...should be shipped today/tomorrow??
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:15pm |
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As for HT...I saw/read where Alex said it could have a 10c difference...and was definitely planning on turning it off--since I'll just be playing games...
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:17pm |
I can understand that a difference in mobo's might cause a difference...I guess, I'm just having problems understanding why I got LC on everything (I wanted quiet--that's why...) but, I sure thought it would be a big boost in cooling--isn't that what it's intended to do?? Confused...
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:19pm |
The classifieds make the chips run warmer?? Never heard of that.
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:25pm |
Originally posted by justin.kerr
The classifieds make the chips run warmer?? Never heard of that.
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I apologized to Mouseguard for using his stats for comparison without asking first...but, thought several people would be interested in the comparison between the two machines... It's not often you can put two very similar rigs together for comparison and look at the stats. Our two systems are only a couple of days apart--as far as shipping from DS. I'm particulary interested in the concept of LC...and comparison with other set-ups...this is the best comparison I could come up with...and am surprised at the differences/results... to be honest, would have thought the numbers would have been reversed--LC'ing having the lower idle/load temps--go figure?? 
Edited by Zardoz8719 - 13 Jul 2009 at 6:26pm
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sdelu
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:28pm |
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must be that t-shirt you got. they probably just jammed it in the case with the rest of the stuff.
:)
hope you figure it out. either way, your system will look a whole heck of a lot cooler, and it'll be much quieter, so there's always that!
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:35pm |
Originally posted by sdelu
must be that t-shirt you got. they probably just jammed it in the case with the rest of the stuff.
:)
hope you figure it out. either way, your system will look a whole heck of a lot cooler, and it'll be much quieter, so there's always that!
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By golly...if someone was going to catch that (t-shirt entry) I thought it might be you...  Hey, got to keep your sense of humor--no matter what happens. It may seem like I'm "whinning" here...and maybe I am a bit...confused is more like it. There has always seemed to be a lot of conjecture about how big a difference there is between LC and AIR...this "seems" to blow a hole in the notion that LC is anything but a pretty glowing water hose winding through you system--solely for the purpose of reflecting those UV rays... .
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DST4ME
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:37pm |
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I meant his mobo/CPU both running warmer. the CPU running a bit warmer, and the mobo contributing to overall heat. his idle temp is warmer too.
@Zardoz8719, you are mistaking of comparing 2 different chips, put your chip on air and watch how much higher your temps will be under load, and put mouse's chip on LC and watch his load temps be lower.
Edited by DST4ME - 13 Jul 2009 at 6:39pm
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:39pm |
The ambient room temp could have been different? I know that DS does not need more stuff to do, but lol it would be nice to post the ambient room temp.
I do not know what fans DS uses on the rads?
Could have been some air still in the lines, but the swiftech mirro res bleeds very fast, usually.
A good dual rad, with medium to high speed fans, with a HK water block, with your v core, and speed, should have very good temps..
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DST4ME
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:42pm |
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the room temps should 80f for their test room from what I remember Alex is saying.
you are right with his vcore and speed he should have better temps, his vdroop is off also.
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:48pm |
Originally posted by DST4ME
I meant his mobo/CPU both running warmer. the CPU running a bit warmer, and the mobo contributing to overall heat. his idle temp is warmer too.
@Zardoz8719, you are mistaking of comparing 2 different chips, put your chip on air and watch how much higher your temps will be under load, and put mouse's chip on LC and watch his load temps be lower. |
I see where you're coming from...and as Justin suggested too, the ambient room temp could have been different (but, then again...we expect consistency if they're all done in the same setting/lab). All true. But, I have to wonder...all the machinations (and expense) we (all) go through to get something (cooler, quieter, higher OC, etc...) is really for naught--because none of the things I added--LC, different headsink, bigger rad, etc...did nothing. If it comes down to drawing the better i7 920 chip--it becomes a crap shoot...and all the fussing over various parts comes down to luck-of-the-draw.  One of the biggest reasons for spending extra $$$ is to assure success--I'm not sure it works in this case.
Edited by Zardoz8719 - 13 Jul 2009 at 7:22pm
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:56pm |
Wait till you get it home.
there is just too many variables to make any sort of reasoning yet.
As long as your cooling system is working properly, your temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room.
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eastor
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:58pm |
Yeah, was wondering that myself...I am waiting for my system, it is somewhere in Reno, NV for the last three days...which is probably not good.  ...and I had overnight temps around 85C. That is with most of the same specs but with a 4.0GHZ clock and without the upgraded waterblock. I have the specialized dual loop for the CPU and 3 285 GTX 2GB video cards, zalman fans and a dual RAD on the CPU as well. I was hoping the temps would be a bit lower for the money spent on the cooling solution...but I guess you need water if you want 3 way SLI. Oh well, hopefully it works out for all of us.
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 7:08pm |
Originally posted by eastor
Yeah, was wondering that myself...I am waiting for my system, it is somewhere in Reno, NV for the last three days...which is probably not good....and I had overnight temps around 85C. That is with most of the same specs but with a 4.0GHZ clock and without the upgraded waterblock. I have the specialized dual loop for the CPU and 3 285 GTX 2GB video cards, zalman fans and a dual RAD on the CPU as well. I was hoping the temps would be a bit lower for the money spent on the cooling solution...but I guess you need water if you want 3 way SLI. Oh well, hopefully it works out for all of us. |
I and a lot of others have been following the epic post on your machine--with facination. Once upon at time, in the beginning of your quest--we were almost exactly the same...in configurations...now, they're just similar...but, would make good comparisons none-the-less as far as stats/configuation goes. I knew yours was shipping out a few days before mine...and really wanted to read your review--and still looking forward to it. Here's hoping it all works out in the wash--best of luck to you...and hope your delivery goes smoothly--despite the delay in NV. 
Edited by Zardoz8719 - 13 Jul 2009 at 7:30pm
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 7:16pm |
Originally posted by justin.kerr
Wait till you get it home.
there is just too many variables to make any sort of reasoning yet.
As long as your cooling system is working properly, your temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room.
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Ah, the voice of reason... You're right of course... 
Correct me if I'm wrong...but, Mouseguard's system and mine were both tested in the same room at DSO (with POSSIBLE slight variations in room temp) your postiion that (my) "temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room." doesn't hold up. Which is precisely what bothers me--the math (or the differences in parts) doesn't add up?
Edited by Zardoz8719 - 13 Jul 2009 at 7:29pm
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DST4ME
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 7:31pm |
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Zardoz8719 again you can't compare one chip temps to another, and as I said if you put your current chip on air you will see the difference in temps right away.
bottom line is that first and foremost your temps and OC depend on the CPU itself and it is a crapshoot, however your load temps are always better on LC. if you were on air your load temp would be in the mid 80s or even higher.
but as justin said, lets wait to see you get home, your settings are not all the same, we don't know both your exact settings, and don't compare your chip to anybody else's, if you do so you are doing a false test.
billDempsy had his chip on air then changed to LC, his was on the same system and chip and he will tell you himself that his load temps were much better on LC where air couldn't even handle the temps under extreme load.
@ eastor, you got 3 x 2GB 285s, under load they produce more heat then 275 and will get the case temp higher, and possibly making your overall temps higher. Also a better waterblock could have had you at 80C. and you have a stage 2 OC which is a different beast to begin with.
Edited by DST4ME - 13 Jul 2009 at 7:32pm
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 7:39pm |
Originally posted by Zardoz8719
Originally posted by Justin.Kerr
Wait till you get it home.
there is just too many variables to make any sort of reasoning yet.
As long as your cooling system is working properly, your temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room.
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Ah, the voice of reason... You're right of course...
Correct me if I'm wrong...but, Mouseguard's system and mine were both tested in the same room at DSO (with POSSIBLE slight variations in room temp) your position that (my) "temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room." doesn't hold up. Which is precisely what bothers me--the math (or the differences in parts) doesn't add up? |
I do not know if the rooms ambient temp changes much from day to day? I would imagine if they were testing a lot of rigs one night, and only one or 2 the next, it would have an impact on the rooms temps.
I also said, if your water cooling system is working properly, could have some air bubbles still. ect. I do not know which fans DS puts on the rads, that would be great info.
Water cooling works. Right now I am testing a 920 setup for 24/7 stability @ 4.7Ghz and the peak load temps are in the 50's.. But this rig is special. lol
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 8:03pm |
Originally posted by DST4ME
Zardoz8719 again you can't compare one chip temps to another, and as I said if you put your current chip on air you will see the difference in temps right away.
bottom line is that first and foremost your temps and OC depend on the CPU itself and it is a crapshoot, however your load temps are always better on LC. if you were on air your load temp would be in the mid 80s or even higher.
but as justin said, lets wait to see you get home, your settings are not all the same, we don't know both your exact settings, and don't compare your chip to anybody else's, if you do so you are doing a false test.
billDempsy had his chip on air then changed to LC, his was on the same system and chip and he will tell you himself that his load temps were much better on LC where air couldn't even handle the temps under extreme load.
@ eastor, you got 3 x 2GB 285s, under load they produce more heat then 275 and will get the case temp higher, and possibly making your overall temps higher. Also a better waterblock could have had you at 80C. and you have a stage 2 OC which is a different beast to begin with. |
Again, I know what you're saying...and I think you know where I'm coming from...it's the "chip" itself. If so, then maybe I should request they (keep) swaping out i7 920's till I get a good one. Like "medicine" it's not a science--but, an art...maybe, that goes for computer configurations too
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 8:06pm |
Originally posted by justin.kerr
Originally posted by Zardoz8719
Originally posted by Justin.Kerr
Wait till you get it home.
there is just too many variables to make any sort of reasoning yet.
As long as your cooling system is working properly, your temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room.
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Ah, the voice of reason... You're right of course...
Correct me if I'm wrong...but, Mouseguard's system and mine were both tested in the same room at DSO (with POSSIBLE slight variations in room temp) your position that (my) "temps will be better than a standard air cooled rig, in the same room." doesn't hold up. Which is precisely what bothers me--the math (or the differences in parts) doesn't add up? |
I do not know if the rooms ambient temp changes much from day to day? I would imagine if they were testing a lot of rigs one night, and only one or 2 the next, it would have an impact on the rooms temps.
I also said, if your water cooling system is working properly, could have some air bubbles still. ect. I do not know which fans DS puts on the rads, that would be great info.
Water cooling works. Right now I am testing a 920 setup for 24/7 stability @ 4.7Ghz and the peak load temps are in the 50's.. But this rig is special. lol
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I want one of them...please. So, don't leave us hanging...will the magician tell us his secret... 
Edited by Zardoz8719 - 13 Jul 2009 at 8:09pm
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DST4ME
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 8:19pm |
LOL we all wish we could ask them to keep changing CPUs till they get one that OCes high on low temps and voltages 
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Alex
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 8:39pm |
Hey guys,
The facility was probably warmer when those tests were run for your system.
Also, this thread should be in 'Hardware Discussion' since the 'Configuration Discussion' forum is for config advice only. I will move it over soon.
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 10:18pm |
Swapping out d0's all day would not net much of a difference when dealing with 3.5Ghz OC's. These chips OC very well, most, with enough cooling, and enough time, can go much higher, high enough to max out any GPU combo ATM. lol
The only people that I know of that swap out a mass amount of chips, are the people looking for that one "golden" chip to set another record.
All d0's seem to be great chips. When I ordered my computer from DS people were very happy to see a quad @ 3.2Ghz lol
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 14 Jul 2009 at 6:34am |
Originally posted by Alex
Hey guys,
The facility was probably warmer when those tests were run for your system.
Also, this thread should be in 'Hardware Discussion' since the 'Configuration Discussion' forum is for config advice only. I will move it over soon. |
Edited by Zardoz8719 - 14 Jul 2009 at 6:37am
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Zardoz8719
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 11:46am |
@ DST4Me... Re-reading some posts...I came upon "Williams2" posts on his system...and had a couple of questions.
To start, Williams2 "stage 7" processor temps from DS were: Idle @ 45C, and Overnight Load @ 81C.
When you asked him to run CPUID and Real Temp (side-by-side) after gaming for about an hour...his temps were "only" in the mid forties.
My questions... (1) What does DS consider/run to get "under load" stats?
(2) Williams2 Real Temp numbers after gaming were only in the mid 40's... Is there a (any) correlation between Williams2 load/game temps and DS's overnight load temp? Is it safe to assume real-people doing average things...won't come close to DS's "load temp"... Is "gaming" not considered enough of a "load" to raise temps--(except for maybe Crysis--and that's just a guess...cuz, my current machine won't play it--but my new one will  ).
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 12:56pm |
Load temps are going to be with a stress testing program, Linx or a variation of it, or prime95 or a variation of it.
It should be possible to hit the temps that DS reports in a very CPU intensive game, that loads all cores, and your room is very hot, but 99% of the time you will not be able hit temps that high in normal useage.
They are using extreme cpu stress tests, to push the system to see if there is any stability problems. Your room temp will have a big impact on your cpu temps.
Also remember that different temp reporting programs will report different temps. I tried it again, mostly for DST. lol Here is a system I am still working on, another few weeks and it should be good to go. lol Gaming on this system, max temps I have seen are in the 40's. I Don't think I can get 4.7Ghz and stay in the 50's unless I can drop my room temps, or use HWmonitor. 
Edited by justin.kerr - 15 Jul 2009 at 1:38pm
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DST4ME
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:18pm |
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correct me if I'm wrong but in that pic your realtime temps are lower with "realtemp" hw is the one showing the higher temps this time around, last time you said hw was showing lower temps. "realtemp"'s minimums seem to be lower then hw also.
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:27pm |
Yes, that is what I stated in an earlier post. The highs are higher, and the lows lower with realtemp. HWinfo posts the same temps as realtemp, just HWmonitor seems off. lol
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DST4ME
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:28pm |
lol how do you figure hw is off?
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:30pm |
because all other "good" temp programs are close, and HWmonitor reads lower highs, and higher lows. lol
I wish HWmonitor was correct, because then 4.7Ghz with max load temps in the 50's would be just unreal!
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DST4ME
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:41pm |
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what other good temp programs? also in the case of the members here so far I have 2 people having both show the same temp.
second on your PCs, from another thread, realtemp has the higher temps and hw had the lower temps, now its back wards, looks to me like realtemp is the flawed one, in a normal OC it shows higher temps all around, lows, realitme and max, in a high OC all of a sudden it flips, it show lower lows and higher max.
question is why is it showing lower min and higher max? if it showed higher min and max that would make sense, but its showing lower min and higher max, to me looks like realtemps is wrong.
however it is alwasy safe to go with the highest temp tho.
Edited by DST4ME - 15 Jul 2009 at 5:47pm
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:47pm |
in my other post it should be the same,realtemp higher highs, lower lows.. That is what I have noticed on 4 of my computers.
My OC is not normal?
I really hope to resolve this soon, with updates on the temp reporting programs.  RC 12 just came out for realtemp, might need to try that one.
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DST4ME
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:49pm |
they are all just guesses of the the temp is really, it is always safest to go with the higher temps anyways.
and no your oc is not the norm around here  how many people do you see with a 221 here? nice oc btw 
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justin.kerr
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Posted: 15 Jul 2009 at 5:55pm |
lol Thanks.
next bios for the classified should allow for 223+ bootable B-clocks, like my DFI board. Thats is what some of the Evga people say... Hope so, because 221-222 is high as I can boot into, then I have to use E-leet to go higher once in windows.
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