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Complete Noob Upgrade Questions!

Post Date: 2010-05-06

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pad0123 View Drop Down
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  Quote pad0123 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Complete Noob Upgrade Questions!
    Posted: 06 May 2010 at 11:33am
Hey guys,

So here is my situation.  I have been a proud DS owner for about a year and a half now (loving this amazing machine!), but it has come time to upgrade a few components.  I have already ordered a second 4870x2 to put into crossfire, but I'm considering a few other options.  The problem is that I'm somewhat clueless about hardware, despite the fact that I'm only one semester away from graduating with a degree in software development.

So here is what I'm looking at.  I can't think of a more trustworthy bunch to advise me on this stuff, so would you be able to tell me if this stuff is compatible.

First off, I have acquired windows 7 through the MSDN Academic Alliance and I'm looking to upgrade that asap, but in the process I want to throw an SSD into my case to run my OS and main programs.  I'm looking at the Crucial c300, which is SATA III 6gb/s.  The only thing is that my mobo is an evga x58 sli, which only has SATA II.  Will I be able to use one of the these SATA III add-on cards?

Sata III add-on:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813995004&cm_re=SATA_6Gb%2fs_interface-_-13-995-004-_-Product

Crucial c300:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348&cm_re=c300-_-20-148-348-_-Product

The Crucial c300 has a limited return policy, so I want to be sure it will work before I spend the money.

As for the 4870x2, I currently have one installed and it idles around 70-80 degrees, which seems pretty high.  Since I'm getting a second one, I was thinking about installing a better cooling solution than the pre-installed noisy fans.  I have found one fan solution which seems like a good product (Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme 4870x2), but I can only buy it on ebay since it has been discontinued.  It is also extremely bulky, so I'm not sure if I want to get it.  My other thought is a liquid cooling solution, but I'm not sure if it is a complete package or if I need something else.  Its called the swiftech caldera:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8474/ex-blc-556/Swiftech_Caldera_4870X2_Rev_2_Full_Coverage_VGA_Liquid_Cooling_System_CALDERA-4870X2.html

It makes it sound like its all inclusive, but then it shows a picture hooked up to hoses and whatever else is involved with liquid cooling.  If I don't need anything else, I think I might get it.

Thanks in advance for any help!  You guys rock!
-pad0

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rholyrag View Drop Down
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  Quote rholyrag Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 1:27pm
pad0123 welcome to the forums!  Somebody will be along soon enough to answer your questions.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity" - Maximus from Gladiator
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pad0123 View Drop Down
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  Quote pad0123 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 2:49pm
rholyrag,

Thanks!  But I'm actually not new.  I had to make a new account, because I forgot my password and my school changed our email system, so I no longer have my old email account.  My previous username was pad0.  :-)
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 3:43pm
you can use that addon card with the ssd but do you really have a use for that vs an 160GB intel on sata 2.0? or raid 2 x 80GB intel on sata 2.0.

not sure what to tell you about the gpu cooling, don't know much about those, but I can tell you that idle 70c 80c temp is too high for the gpu, under load you don't want to be over 85c. Now that is with one card, when you drop in the second card, the temps on the top card will be even higher.

you should have instead gone with a 5870, what res are you at that you need a second 4870x2 anyways?
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justin.kerr View Drop Down
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 4:35pm
his temps are old BIOS issue, just use MSI afterburner to set a better profile, and presto, good idle temps, and good load temps
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pad0123 View Drop Down
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  Quote pad0123 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 5:21pm
Guys,

Thanks for the replies.  Unfortunately this is my second time typing this because I was switching between tabs and accidentally closed it, lol 

DST4ME:

As for the ssd, I'm looking at the c300 because from what I've seen it gets the highest reads and writes.  I was considering a raid 0 setup of some cheaper drives, but I read that windows 7 won't support the TRIM function for raid setups.  I'm not too concerned from a $/GB perspective.  I just want to get the best performing drive in that general price range with 128GB or higher capacity. 

As for the video card, I figured two 4870x2's would outperform a single 5870.  Am I wrong?  My intentions were to crossfire my 4870x2 with something from the 5000 series, but I recently found out that wasn't possible.  I run at 1920x1200 when possible.

justin.kerr:
Have you had this issue?  The temps I mentioned are with the fan on auto.  If I turn it up manually, it drops drastically, but it gets extremely loud.

Thanks again guys!
-pad0
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 5:28pm
in a few games the 4870x2 does better however in most games and dx11 games from what I have seen the 5870 does the same or better.

but there are other things to look at:

1. 5870 is a single gpu solution which is better then teh internal cf of 4870x2.

2. 4870x2 is in cf already, another one means quad cf, dual cf or tri cf has better scaling then quad cf.

3. the 5870 has better temps and less noise from what I understand.

I'm not very familiar with the c300, if that is the one that has the good controller then its ok but you need to look at 4k read speeds, those are the most important, and you will find that intel is king, which is why most of us advise the intel, plus it has gc so trim is not needed, and it keeps its performance better then others.
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 5:44pm

the 4870x2 is a good card, still performs well. the AUTO setting is messed up, if you have the newest drivers, 10.4 and still the temp problem, then either you can use MSI afterburner, which you can make your own profile, your card will run cooler, and won't be loud.

or you can modify the BIOS, but I would not do that unless you have modded your own BIOS in the past.
 
Crucial SSD sux donkey pee pee at the moment, might be a decent drive once the firm ware issues get ironed out.
so don't add another 4870x2, you will be pissing backwards. fine tune it, and enjoy it, wait for the 6000 series later this year. 5870 will not really be an upgrade, kinda will, kinda not, not worth it.
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  Quote pad0123 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 7:53pm
DST4ME:
 
c300 specs state:
-Sequential Read: up to 355 mb/s
-Sequential Write: up to 210 mb/s
-Random 4K Read: 60K IOPS
 
Intel x25-M specs:
-Sequential Read: up to 250MB/s
-Sequential Write: up to 100MB/s
-Random 4KB Reads: up to 35K IOPS
 
Despite these numbers, unfortunately justin is right when he says "Crucial SSD sux donkey pee pee at the moment"..  there seems to be some issue going on with the firmware.  They released a new update, but had a negative effect.  They claim the following : "On Wednesday, May 5th we pulled the RealSSD C300 firmware v0002 update from our support site. We did this to allow our product engineering team time to evaluate reported issues. We have identified a compatibility issue between the update tool and certain motherboards. There are no known issues with the firmware itself. We are revising the update tool to eliminate the known compatibility issues. Although the majority of customers have seen no issues with the update we wanted to protect those customers that might."
 
So maybe a raid 0 intel would be best.  What do you mean when you say "plus it has gc so trim is not needed?"
 
justin.kerr:
 
Ha, unfortuantely I already ordered the second 4870x2, it should be here tomorrow.  Big mistake?  I know I'm missing out on dx11, but I still think I'll see some improvement.  Maybe not the best investment..  Oh well.  As wierd as it sounds, there is no way I could have pulled the trigger on a new card if it meant putting a perfectly good one on the sidelines.  I'm going to double check my temps tonight during some gaming.  I'll give you guys some more exact figures.  I'll probably end up using the MSI afterburner that you mentioned.
 
I see your signature says: Intel X25m RAID 0.  What is your opinion?
 
-pad0
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 8:16pm

one 4870x2 vs 2 4870x2 gaming performance, will be next to nothing.. if you have enough power supply, and enough CPU, and everything is dialed in correctly, you will see about a 15%-25% gain on average... some games might see 50% some none..

If one 160 Gb Intel SSD has enough capacity, I would go that route. 1 160Gb gaming wise is just as fast as 2 80Gb, and less problems.. if you need more capacity, then go two 160Gb Intels, should be able to get them for under $400.00, or so.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 May 2010 at 1:15am
Well I was not sure, as I said I don't know too much about the crucial, but justin is correct right now their controller is bs.

gc = garbage collection.
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  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 May 2010 at 11:35pm
their controllers are bs, yes, but you have to admit, the C300 256GB is seriously the cheapest (and decent) 256GB SSD on the market, by a somewhat reputable company, that is
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 May 2010 at 2:55am
Originally posted by ablahblah

their controllers are bs, yes, but you have to admit, the C300 256GB is seriously the cheapest (and decent) 256GB SSD on the market, by a somewhat reputable company, that is

Pffft. For the same price you could buy three Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSDs for a RAID0 array with much better performance.

Go with Intel SSDs, then you don't have to worry about buying an expensive motherboard or add on PCIe card for 6Gbps SATA. The Intels are time proven, having been out for some time. They don't need tweaks or special setup, they don't need firmware updates, they're compatible with the largest range of hardware, they don't randomly brick themselves, they don't degrade in performance with use (even without TRIM, making them perfect for RAID arrays), they have negligible performance loss from being full, and they have a wonderful price point.
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