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DS In The News!

Post Date: 2007-10-16
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donkeypunch View Drop Down
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Posts: 188 		  Quote donkeypunch Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: DS In The News!
    Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 2:55pm
So I got my computer yesterday! Still getting used to Vista and installing stuff, but I log on today and my home page is yahoo. At the top of the page I see an article from Toms Hardware with the headline-

Boutique Graphics PCs Duke It Out


It talks about Digital Storm and Ava Direct. Article is at:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/16/boutique_graphics_pcs_duke_it_out/
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skyR View Drop Down
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Posts: 2220 		  Quote skyR Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 3:35pm
good read
The only thing that keeps me wishing on a wishing star.
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Posts: 450 		  Quote Bigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 4:02pm
indeed, good read for sure. 
 
after looking through there site, just to check it out.  I didn't really like there site layout, nor did I like some or even most of the options they give people.
 
They have basically WAY to many options to even choose from.  Which for the most part would confuse people that wanted a NICE gaming setup.  I found DSO to me more simple, narrowing down everything and still giving you great options to choose from.   Also, Customizing on that website was horrible compared to DSO, when I was customizing through them, they didn't give me any option what-so-ever to chose between intel or AMD.  All you were able to choose from were AMD's and that was it. 
 
Then the graphics cards were even more horrible to pick between by giving me like 4 different options for 8800GTX 769MB card  each had different MHz on them which was the only difference.   Each card had about 4 to 8 options to pick through which actually confused me A LOT.
 
I don't know but that site just seemed to be a mess.
 
 
Edit: I found the intel setup, it's still a hell of a mess when customizing everything, it's horrible.
 
with the setup I am getting through DSO, I did the same set-up plus with using intel, they didn't give me 2x video card options at all.  I could only pick up.  they didn't have exactly everything that DSO has.  Anyway, when doing the whole setup on there site if I were to even put in a extra card it the whole thing would have costed me about $500.00 more then DSO, It could have costed even more then that if they would of had everything DSO had.


Edited by Bigdog - 16 Oct 2007 at 4:17pm
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skyR View Drop Down
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Posts: 2220 		  Quote skyR Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 4:15pm
Their website is a lot harder to understand and use for most people who don't work with computers.

But the several options they have are awsome for the enthusiasts who don't want to build their own. Also some people would prefer to know exactly what they are paying for.
The only thing that keeps me wishing on a wishing star.
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Bigdog View Drop Down
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Posts: 450 		  Quote Bigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 4:21pm
I don't disagree with you one bit,  they have some pretty good options.  Some of the things I understand while some I don't.
 
one thing I didn't understand was, how come I couldn't have dual graphic cards with intel, but if I went AMD I could. 
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skyR View Drop Down
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Posts: 2220 		  Quote skyR Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 4:26pm
There are Intel SLI builds, AMD SLI builds, Intel builds, AMD builds, etc..

Very unorganized and clustered making it hard to find the billion of builds they offer =x
The only thing that keeps me wishing on a wishing star.
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Posts: 230 		  Quote thecomplex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 4:44pm
Good job DS! The closeup of the EXTREME case in red really showed off the perfect finish - and it performed nicely too, difficult since it seems to me that some of the more high-end configurations (SLI in particular) offer diminishing returns.

As for the AVA Direct site, looks like you would need to have advanced knowledge of a lot of components in order to navigate and successfully configure a system, but for that niche, it looks like an awesome set of options.

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Posts: 450 		  Quote Bigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 4:56pm
I like to read the reviews on websites before purchasing a product.  All I can say is that they do have  satisfied customers, but the ones that have had a really horrible experience makes me glade I went through DSO.
 
read some of there seller reviews, some of those customers that are not satisfied really had some crap dumped on them :( 
 
I read reviews for DSO and all I can say is they responded to pretty much everything when someone was dissatisfied and wanted to work out the problems with also free shipping unlike that other website which they just say "we are doing an investigation on this matter" LOL.  Whenever I hear or see those words, one thing comes to mind "partial scam".
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Posts: 407 		  Quote Dashuu Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 7:14pm
I find it funny, in my opinion, that they chose to compare a top shelf DS system to a moderate build by Ava. Then they say we lose in the price value. Of course we do, we sent you a system with a $200 paint job! /shrug. Oh well. 
1
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Posts: 193 		  Quote bfrank2me Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 7:26pm
...and just what happens to that system now?  Do you get it back or do they keep it as corporate graft?  If the answer is that they keep it, then I too would like to write a review of a bleeding edge DS system.  I know you'll like how it turns out!Clap... 
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Posts: 193 		  Quote Jingping Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Dashuu

I find it funny, in my opinion, that they chose to compare a top shelf DS system to a moderate build by Ava. Then they say we lose in the price value. Of course we do, we sent you a system with a $200 paint job! /shrug. Oh well. 
 
Yes, I fully concur.  What would have been much more meaningful would have been if they had ordered a top shelf system by Ava and compared that instead to the DS build.  Or, alternately, a moderate build by DS.
 
You can't really compare a 6000 dollar system to a 3000 dollar system in terms of dollar to performance value, especially considering the rate of diminishing returns in electronics.  Just because you pay double doesn't mean you'll get double performance, after all.
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donkeypunch View Drop Down
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Posts: 188 		  Quote donkeypunch Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 7:46pm
"Just because you pay double doesn't mean you'll get double performance, after all."

I think thats what the comparison was about, value to performance. It showed that the DS sytem clearly had superior hardware and referred to the Ava as a budget or value system. I think it was to question if the large price gap is worth the performance gained, which of course is different for each person.

On a side note, I never realized how articles compare apples to apples with different builders. If both builders use the exact same hardware they would be about dead even. Whichever system has the best hardware with no OC'ing involved would always win no?

In last months issue of Computer Power User they ran a comparison of a few 8k+ systems from the big names. CyberPower had a rig tested-I couldnt believe it lol. Anyway, the results showed the rigs with the best hardware got the highest benchmarks. When OC'ing was invloved it was different-some had better overclocked performance.
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Alex View Drop Down
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Posts: 16314 		  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 8:45pm

The review did not compare both machines at an equal level. For one, the system we sent them was absolutely the best of the best we had to offer that that time. We sent them a top of the line setup without knowing that they were going to be comparing price to performance. As Dave stated, we went to the level of including a “Ferrari-Red” exotic paint job. Not only was the paint job a luxury upgrade, so were a few of the other options we included.

Now Ava Direct does have some very fair pricing, and we are happy to see them as a competitor. However I do not feel that this was a legitimate comparison of both companies. Had we known beforehand that “pricing” was going to be a deciding factor we would not have sent them a $7,000+ machine. If we had known we were going to be compared against another system; we would have sent a machine that was perfectly balanced. Tom's Hardware, while a great source, did not clarify which aspects were going to be major factors in the review. Usually when there is a comparison between two systems, both parties are notified of such weights.

I took the opportunity to go to the Ava Direct website and build an identical system. The price difference between the two builds was within a $100 (including Ava’s shipping fee VS. Digital Storm’s free shipping). It was actually in Ava's favor, but pricing itself is not what we live by here.

“Customer service, technical support, strict testing practices, the goal to ensure our customers are happy are all factors that come with no price.”



Edited by Alex - 16 Oct 2007 at 9:09pm
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Posts: 16314 		  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 9:09pm
Tongue Good one!
 
They are actually sent back.
 
Originally posted by bfrank2me

...and just what happens to that system now?  Do you get it back or do they keep it as corporate graft?  If the answer is that they keep it, then I too would like to write a review of a bleeding edge DS system.  I know you'll like how it turns out!Clap... 
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Posts: 501 		  Quote sundowner Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 9:41pm

I just built virtually the same rig (my current) on their site and it was actually $100 more from them than from DSO.



Edited by sundowner - 16 Oct 2007 at 9:41pm
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Alex View Drop Down
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Posts: 16314 		  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 10:17pm
Or pricing may perhaps in our favor with certain configurations. Wink
 
Originally posted by sundowner

I just built virtually the same rig (my current) on their site and it was actually $100 more from them than from DSO.
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Posts: 16314 		  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 11:09pm
Another update, Toms Hardware is giving us a chance to build a machine similiar to the AVA Direct system. Now is our time to shine. Smile Anyone want to suggest what we should put?
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Posts: 188 		  Quote donkeypunch Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 11:26pm
Are they letting you guys build a system to compare to the current Ava build or is it going to compare two entirely different machines? It looks like you guys sell almost all the same parts Ava used except for the ram and water cooling kit. Would be cool to see DS build a system based on Avas current system and OC the DS system with your water cooling kit. 

If its going to be two new systems from the ground up it should be both companies building the best computer they can to see who can put out the fastest stable machine with the highest benchmarks-then compare price.
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Posts: 1150 		  Quote Bill the Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Oct 2007 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Alex

Another update, Toms Hardware is giving us a chance to build a machine similiar to the AVA Direct system. Now is our time to shine. Smile Anyone want to suggest what we should put?
 
 
First, as it apparently did for everyone else, this Tom's Hardware article left kind of a funny after taste in my mouth. The whole premise was a little "off". I think the article was supposed to be about the performance differences between a high quality $3K and a high quality $6K computer in 2007. That's a legitimate subject, Imagine if both evaluation machines had been from DSO or both from AVA. Then it would have been a straight forward midrange vs. highend comparison with no possibility of implying one company was "better" than the other.
 
The problem is the machines were from different boutiques, and Tom's kept getting sucked in to doing a competitive comparative review kind of thing.
 
The original idea for the article wasn't bad, I think the conclusion from a careful reading of the article is, "$6K Uber machines are (only) worth the money if you want to play games at ultra high resolutions. That's hard to argue with, isn't it? Yet there's still that undercurrent that the DSO machine's price/performance ratio isn't as good as the AVA machine. It's still good publicity for DSO especially if they do an article on DSO's rebuttle machine, but the article wound up being broken.
 
Maybe Tom's was expecting a $3K machine from DSO. Mixing sports metaphors, I wonder of DSO threw Tom's a curve ball by sending a primo machine, and Tom's just decided to run with it.
 
Watch out. I'll bet Tom's offers AVA a chance to build "balls to the wall" machine for that follow up article. Actually, an article that compared all four machines would have been the most interesting option.
 
So, what should you put in DSO's mid range machine? Match the AVA machine's price, using the cheapest parts that work, and (I hate to say it) cherry pick the CPU and memory parts for overclockability. You can't just leave the individual part quality to random chance for a one off test.


Edited by Bill the Cat - 17 Oct 2007 at 12:21am
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 12:44am
Well.... I'm thinking that maybe you are looking at this as a glass half empty Alex.
 
I don't know how many people saw that Ferrari red computer, and the amazing craftsmanship that went into it, or read the glowing praise over the build's quality, but I am guessing it was more than two or three. That was also one heck of a description before they got to the charts and graphs, most of which just showed a computer from DSO kicking the unholy crap out of a competitor without giving the context, page, after page. If anyone should be upset at that review, it's AVA LOL.
 
I agree the article was misleading, and probably should not have been done in a head to head style without letting both companies know it was to be a bang for the buck comparison. It's definately not all bad though. Wink
 
As for the next build, I would try and put together something for ~$1500. Something that the guys at Tom's *would* pay the $$$ for, and something that shows that even though DSO is able to do the Ferrari red, super souped up dream machine, that isn't the *only* thing DSO does. That way, you get the exposure on your top end, *and* something more affordable.
 
 
 
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Posts: 16314 		  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 12:57am
You guys are right on the ball, from my current understanding, they would compare a new system by us to the same AVA Direct machine. As long as we keep it around the same pricing.
 
This time I will double check if they are having AVA Direct send another machine as well. Now we know the rules of the game, time to win it.


Edited by Alex - 17 Oct 2007 at 12:58am
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Posts: 193 		  Quote Jingping Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 1:01am
DS, ra ra ra!
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Posts: 501 		  Quote sundowner Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 1:08am
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=88056
 
 
compared to the spec's that the AVA gave them, but a quad instead of a duo and less than $3k, but I expect you'd want to use an ultra or extreme case.
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Posts: 16314 		  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 1:27am
Looks good, but, looks like we will keep the configuration a secret. Just so the competition don't find out. Wink
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Posts: 501 		  Quote sundowner Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 4:59am
You should message Tom's hardware and tell them to set a budget so both companies can work off of that, it'd be alot simpler I would think.
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Posts: 230 		  Quote thecomplex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 9:25am
DSO ftw!

Chris
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Posts: 450 		  Quote Bigdog Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Oct 2007 at 11:57pm
Indeed, I hope DS wins.  I will cheer for ya'll.....***takes off his shirt.....looks around**** well maybe not that way.LOL
 
OH!!! I got the best idea,  give me a free flight out to there company the day before they take the picture, right before they take the picture I will run infront of the camera nook-ed Shocked  they will be likeAngry and I will be likeWink
 
 
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Graphics: 2x 8800GTX 768MB
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HDD 3: 320GB western
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