First Config - Advice AppreciatedPost Date: 2008-07-21 |
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Topic: First Config - Advice AppreciatedPosted: 21 Jul 2008 at 9:05pm |
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I'm upgrading a 5-year-old desktop that has given me good service but simply can't handle the games I want to play. I want a system that can handle games like Crysis, Oblivion, NWN2, AoC, CoH/V, EVE Online, Guild Wars, possibly WH: AoR and 'comfort' gaming (ever had a crumby day and just wanted to play an old favorite?) like the original NWN, Warcraft III and Masters of Orion II. My budget is between $2,000 and $2,500 for the rig itself but I could go up to $3,000 if I want to wait a couple months (I don't; I'm all about the instant gratification and my poor desktop is givin' me the agida at this point). I plan on buying a 19" to 22" LCD to replace the behemoth 19" monitor I currently have. Not sure if I'll go for the simplicity of buying the LCD from DSO or get it elsewhere later on. If I buy it from DSO that'll add to the cost, obviously. My goal is to get the best I can within my budget, have a rig I can upgrade and that will last me 4 to 5 years if it has to. I've configured two rigs that seem to fit what I'm looking and will give me good performance. They're not smoking hot - much as I'd like to get the high end stuff I'm a woman on a budget. I understand that I won't always be able to run games maxed out with these rigs and I'm alright with that, just so games don't look like the old Starcraft when I play them and drag my framerate down to 5-10 fps. Mobo - I'm torn between the Asus and the 780i. It's a $72 difference but I've read good things about the Asus and I'm wondering if I'll see where that $72 went, as it were. How do the onboard sound chips compare? I have quite a bit of music I'd like to play (preferably while gaming) and if I can go with onboard sound that leaves me a bit of money I could spend somewhere else.
Video - I know there have been issues with the 9800 drivers and I know that nVidia will sort it out. Are the issues livable or are they 'throw your rig through the nearest window in frustration' sorts of problems? I'd prefer to go with the 9800, honestly, but not if it's going to cause frustration and heartache.
Hard Drive - I've some thought to using one HD for music and media only and the drives are pretty cheap. Alternatively I could get 1 320, partition it then use the extra money on something else.
Will older games like NWN, Warcraft III and Masters of Orion II have trouble/be impossible to play on Vista 64 bit? This will determine whether I get the 32 bit or 64 bit version.
Overclocking - If I get the CPU overclocked will the Stage 2 cooling be sufficient? Considering the system doesn't look over-taxed heat-wise, I just want to make sure.
If I wait a couple months I could get this rig: Ticket Number: 169339
I'm thinking I should upgrade the cooling if I do get this one. Suggestions on refining these three choices would be welcome.
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schulni
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Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 58 |
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Posted: 21 Jul 2008 at 9:33pm |
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Most of your builds look all right. I don't see the point in waiting to upgrade to DDR3 when most of the games you'll be playing won't take advantage of it anyway for a while. And, after all, you want instant gratification. If you decide to go with the Asus chip, I'd recommend one of the Radeon cards, the 4850 or the 4870. They are good value right now, and that gives you the option to add a second later for crossfire (if you decide to do the 22inch monitor). If you are thinking about a second card later, then definitely increase the PSU to at least 750W. You can have DS partition your hard drive to save money there. 64 bit is the way to go, especially if you are getting 4gb of ram. You can save money by getting OCZ instead of Corsair. If it were up to me, I'd buy the keyboard, mouse, monitor, and software (ms office) elsewhere for cheaper. It worked out well for me (just saying). If you aren't overclocking - which you might consider - stage 2 cooling should be enough. I hope that answers some questions. There are plenty of people here that know more than I do, some I'm just getting you started!
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david5182
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Joined: 13 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 215 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 12:48am |
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LOL, poor harleyman got dizzy flying too much in his dodo in FSX. :D ON TOPIC: I would also like to hear people opinions on Vista 32 vs 64.
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widdlecat
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Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 840 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 1:24am |
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First, as far as onboard audio is concerned, the ASUS is superior. It has a cirrus-logic DAC as opposed to the realtek that the other mobo has. It measures better, but more importantly, sounds better. Also, the sound card on the ASUS rampage has X-FI. IMO, as an audio fanatic, the next step up in sound card I would take would be getting an ASUS Xonar D2X with the exceptional burr-brown DAC.
One thing to consider is that the 780 will support nVidia SLI, while the ASUS will support ATI crossfireX. Currently, reviewer opinion on vid cards is that the best buy for ~200bucks is the ATI HD 4850, while the best buy for ~300 is the ATI HD 4870. Techies are predicting that the X2 versions of these cards will dominate as well, in the price \ performance category. I'm really liking my HD 4850 right now. P.S. I love Starcraft! wuwu! ![]() |
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SunfighterLC
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1527 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 1:26am |
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The mobo is up to personal preference, and its mostly based on which video card company you want to use. I doubt youll be SLIing or Crossfiring anytime soon, but if you want to do that someday keep in mind ASUS will be Crossfire while the other is SLI. If you do get an Asus though, id recommend you grabbing up a 4870 instead of a 9800GTX, not only is the 4870 better in all reguards, it leaves that option open to add another card should you ever find tha need. Video cards id avoid the 9800GTX as much as possible, there are MUCH better cards out right now that have prices just in total freefall. Id completely recommend you wait the extra months for those price drops to be reflected in DSs configs..They still have them priced high because they cant get a discount on the ones they already bought.
The hard drives question is up to you, some people like one single large drive. This is the first time i went with 2 hard drives (soon 3) but i can honestly say that i like it. I have a Windows Drive and a Games drive. Having it all organized is pretty cool. The only annoying point is i have to custom install everything as it always wants to default to the small windows drive.
I believe stage 2 would be alright with a overclock as you get the heatsink and everything, and thats the most important piece of the equation. Id honestly not recommend overclocking though from DS, they seem to have a lot of issues with it. And really, once you read up on it, its pretty easy to do.
All i can say about 64 and older games is that i know WC3 works, i dunno about the other two as i dont have them, but ive yet to run into a game that causes problems...Vista 64 has a 32 bit emulator in it. Ive yet to run into a single V64 issue, other people have, but not me...though maybe its cause most my stuff is pretty new. oh..Diablo 2 works as well..thats a pretty old game.
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E8500@ 4.03Ghz
XFX 790i Ultra 1000W Corsair HX 2 280 GTX EVGA FTW 4GB OCZ Reaper 1800Mhz 250-80-300GB VR HD Logitech Z-2300 2.1 Speakers Asus Xonar 7.1 Hanns-G HG 281D 28" HDMI Monitor |
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Tyler Lowe
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Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 1:50am |
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If you want the best possible overclock results, go with the intel based chipset. I don't know more than enough to be dangerous when it comes to audio, but if Widdlecat says something is good, you can take it to the bank- she's our resident audiophile. IMO, the onboard sound on most premium motherboards is good enough these days to please all but audio enthusiasts.
The only problems I am aware of are with the beta drivers and CUDA. The implementation of the built in Phys-X function has not apparently gone as smoothly as nVidia had hoped. Stick with the WHQL certified drivers and you should be fine. I do believe there are better values to be had currently on the configuration page. I would recommend an HD4870 at the same price without reservation.
I really like having more than one HDD, but I have to say, it's very easy to add a second or even third hard drive on your own at a later date, and having more than one HDD should be viewed as a luxury IMO, not as a critical part of a build.
You may find some of the older games don't like Vista in general. Vista 64 bit is more likely to have these problems than 32 bit, but there is a 32 bit compatibility mode available should you experience a problem. Nothing is 100% when it comes to ensuring old programs will run on new OS however. The only way to be absolutely certain is a dual OS.
This depends in part on the case, and in part on the rest of the components, and finally, how much overclocking headroom you want. I recommend going with stage 3 cooling if you want to overclock. The motherboard, memory.... pretty much everything in your system is put under more stress and creates more heat when you overclock. Upgrading the cooling will not only help you get the most from your new system, but also increase it's life expectancy (if you are not the sort to upgrade every one to two years, or even three years, this may be important).
Suggested Configuration:
Notes:
Open Office is free, and compatible with any Microsoft Office files you need to open. Check them out at Openoffice.org. It's a great way to save some cash for other build areas, and once you start using the open source office software, you'll wonder why you ever paid Microsoft for theirs.
A HD4870 will perform at a level similar, if not better than a GTX260. They are he same price as a 9800GTX in the configuration page. They destroy the performance of a 9800GTX.
A 750W PSU is robust enough to crossfire a second card later. Get the system now, enjoy it, and drop in a second card in a few months instead of waiting for the whole thing. Edited by Tyler Lowe - 22 Jul 2008 at 2:01am |
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Kliebor2
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Joined: 22 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 659 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 12:20pm |
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I can tell you from experience that 9800GTX will run many games just fine, I have run mine both in SLI and not, and had no real troubles with them either way.
I run Age of Conan like a champ pretty much maxxed out in all important areas and score 48 Average FPS and 60 FPS peaks which is more than nice with the graphics that game has. I will admit the 9800GTX may not be the best card, but it is inexpensive and for price has good performance. The new 4850 and 4870 are nice cards, but I think we will see some stabilization from nVidia in time, they have several new driver updates in the works from my understanding to tweak better performance out of many of their cards. Once CUDA is ironed out it will be a nice enhancement for 9800GTX and newer that will show uip some nice increases on CUDA aware games. Dave Edited by Kliebor2 - 22 Jul 2008 at 12:21pm |
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Digital Storm 950Si - Q9450 Quad Core @ 3 Ghz
Dual PNY OC2 GTX 560Ti 8 Gigabytes DDR2/800 2 Western Digital 500 GB SATAII 7200 RPM HD |
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 12:26pm |
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Widdlecat, Tyler and everyone, thank you for your input. Those were exactly the things I needed to know. I appreciate the suggestion about Open Office, too. I know I'd heard about it but I can't believe I didn't check it out. D'oh! I will happily scrap the M$ Office suite in favor of Open Office.
I meant to ask before; how does Firefox and Thunderbird work on Vista 64 bit?
That looks similar to one of the first systems I'd played with and then promtly forgot to save.
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 2:33pm |
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Okay, I've tweaked the system Tylor suggested, going for 1066MHz Corsair and Crossfire HD4850's since I plan on getting the 22" LCD. After reading the reviews on the HD4850's I figured why not since it wasn't that much more expensive. My main concern, at this point, is the GPU running too hot. The rig will sit on top of a desk in the open. The room is well ventilated but does get warm in the summer. I've kept the Stage 3 cooling as well. I've decided not to go with overclocking to start. I can do that later if I feel I need the performance boost. My only other concern is the rig operating with my current monitor, a 19" CRT. I know I won't see the benefit of Crossfire until I upgrade the monitor but it shouldn't cause a problem otherwise, I'm hoping.
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workingman
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 411 |
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Posted: 22 Jul 2008 at 2:37pm |
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personally i would water cool..but call dso they will be able to tell you if what you have selected should run with fans..
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Tyler Lowe
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Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 2:07am |
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One reason I suggested the HD4870 is the dual slot cooler. The vent at the end of the card allows some of that hot air to exit the case while the HD4850 runs quite hot and dumps all that heat right back into the case. Stage 3 cooling should cope with this, but it may negatively impact your ability to overclock later, and the components you selected scream "overclock me".
I think it also comes down to where you want to draw the line on expense, even over time. In my mind, the performance gained with a 4870 in crossfire is worth the added cost, particularly when the expense of the upgrade can be budgeted over time, but everyone has to decide for themselves at what point they want their wallet to stop bleeding cash.
Take a look here for a comparison of Crossfire and single GPU setups between the HD4000 series.
Your configuration is definitely looking very powerful atm, no two ways about that.
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 2:25am |
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Thank you for the link comparing the HD4000's. You're right, it's worth getting the single 4870 now, overclocking the CPU and then buying a second HD4870 for Crossfire at a later date. Looks like I've got my birthday present picked out. Thank you for the help! |
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widdlecat
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Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 840 |
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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 8:19pm |
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Looks great Alleahna! I have an HD 4850 and with the ez fan fix that is all over the internet, it idles at 57*C and peaks during gaming at 82*C unless I overclock. My case isn't well ventilated for the graphics card, but I still do fine. If I had the money, however, I would have chosen the HD 4870 too. Still, I'm loving this card and am experimenting with settings to optimise for Assassin's Creed, which I think is my most demanding game that I play. Good luck with your rig!
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SunfighterLC
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1527 |
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Posted: 23 Jul 2008 at 8:22pm |
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My 280FTW idles at 49C bwhahaha! I win!!!
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E8500@ 4.03Ghz
XFX 790i Ultra 1000W Corsair HX 2 280 GTX EVGA FTW 4GB OCZ Reaper 1800Mhz 250-80-300GB VR HD Logitech Z-2300 2.1 Speakers Asus Xonar 7.1 Hanns-G HG 281D 28" HDMI Monitor |
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Sardonic
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 1:29am |
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I'm looking for some help too on my first config, I've been planning on getting a new PC for some time, and I also have some questions too.
I'm not too good with computers, so, any advice is greatly appreciated.
These are my questions. I haven't seen this on the site yet, but is there tax on DS' computers? And is shipping to places on the East Coast of the US free?
This is the Config number, 169911, again, I'm not too sure on if I'm building it correctly for what I'm aiming for. I want a computer around $2000, give or take a hundred, that I can use for games like Oblivion, Spore, and other titles that take either high end or medium quality graphics.
Sorry for the long and drawn out post.
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schulni
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Joined: 28 Jun 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 58 |
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Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 1:34am |
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Sardonic - start a new thread, and include your monitor size. There are lots of people who would be happy to help you out. And no need to apologize for the post length (you should read my review if you think that post is long!)
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Sardonic
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8 |
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Posted: 24 Jul 2008 at 1:46am |
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Alright, I'll do that now.
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 26 Jul 2008 at 6:18pm |
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The Husband is rather jealous but what can I say? I've been saving my pennies. ![]()
Thank you! I'm certainly looking forward to ordering it. Hopefully in the next two weeks.
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 2008 at 2:18pm |
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Thank you, again, for all the help and suggestions. Tomorrow's the big day for ordering my new system and this is the rig I'm going to get: $2,605
I talked with customer service and they said Stage 2 cooling was sufficient* but I think I'll still go with Stage 3. That's what noise-canceling headphones are for, right? I've decided on the 900 chasis rather than the 850i which means I can bump up to the 2.83 quad core and OC the CPU. I'm so excited. I feel like a kid at Christmas. I may have to take another vacation when I get my new rig so I can savor the gaming goodness. Or catch the 'flu'. ![]() _____ *I love the fact they didn't try to upsell me to something more expensive but simply warned me the fans were their loudest and I might want to pick something quieter. |
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SunfighterLC
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Joined: 18 Feb 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1527 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 2008 at 3:45pm |
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Personally i dont see stage 3 air cooling with a A900 being a good deal. I dont think itd be adding very many extra fans.....if any for that matter. I dont know much about the A900, but by all accounts you maybe paying all that extra money from stage 2 to stage 3 air cooling, for nothing but slightly improved fans...but not more fans like youd get with the larger cases.
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E8500@ 4.03Ghz
XFX 790i Ultra 1000W Corsair HX 2 280 GTX EVGA FTW 4GB OCZ Reaper 1800Mhz 250-80-300GB VR HD Logitech Z-2300 2.1 Speakers Asus Xonar 7.1 Hanns-G HG 281D 28" HDMI Monitor |
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widdlecat
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Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 840 |
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Posted: 05 Aug 2008 at 5:12pm |
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First off, very nice configuration and nice price too!
For the stage 3 cooling, the first difference you're paying for is the more efficient zalman hsf. Second, there are two additional mounts for fans in the antec900 case. The one on the side is the main addition that is helpful for cooling the graphics section. I suppose while they're doing the build, it wouldn't hurt to ask if you can opt for higher quality fans all around... something like Scythe s-flex or other quiet fans / high output or high pressure design. Lotta options out there these days and if they install em, it's that much less work for you to do. |
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Tyler Lowe
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Joined: 14 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
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Posted: 06 Aug 2008 at 12:39am |
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I believe it is a total of four 120mm fan mounts in addition to the larger (200mm?) fan at the top of the Antec 900. That would be 4 high grade fans as the default factory fans should get replaced in addition to the empty mounts being populated.
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 06 Aug 2008 at 2:52pm |
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Thank you, widdlecat! I checked with them this morning and they do replace the case fans on the 900 with higher-grade fans for Stage 3. It's worth the extra money to me to have them do it for me rather than immediately having to tinker with it when I get it.
It's ordered and now I'm trying NOT to check the customer service section or my email every five minutes. |
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2008 at 3:06pm |
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I'm such a noob, I could have had them load and update Crysis for me.
Just emailed CS to see if it's not too late to add it and how much time it'll add to picking up the new rig. I've got a couple days left of vacation and I want to play with the new toy NOOOOOOOOOOOOOW! /e Veruca Salt ![]() |
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 15 Aug 2008 at 1:28am |
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DSO CS gave me a call this afternoon more than happy to load, patch and test Crysis for me even at this late stage (thank you Eric!). He even mentioned that when I pick it up, if I set up a specific time with them they'd have the rig out and I could test it right there before I bring it home. If only other companies I dealt with had this kind of commitment to the customer. *happy sigh*
Guess I'll be taking some time off from work next week to 'visit the doctor' *cough*. I feel like I should decorate my corner of the office with a basinette and wallpaper for my new baby. ![]() |
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widdlecat
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Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 840 |
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Posted: 15 Aug 2008 at 10:47pm |
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That sounds awesome! Have fun over there! I say decorate your office with pink! ![]() |
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Alleahna
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Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 18 Aug 2008 at 4:57pm |
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I'm more a purple person, myself, totally non-traditional.
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