Flight Sim build questionsPost Date: 2010-09-09 |
Post Reply 
|
| Author | |
Sigwolf 
Newbie 
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Flight Sim build questionsPosted: 09 Sep 2010 at 8:28pm |
|
I am looking at a build for primarily flight sim use, but also includes other gaming/non-gaming tasks. Here is the configuration I am leaning towards...
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI 3 Edition (Intel X58 Chipset) (Features USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s) (Model: 131-GT-E767)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 1000W Digital Storm Certified (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Highly Recommended)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (80GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: X25-M MLC Edition) (Extreme Performance) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (150GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (64MB Cache) (Model: Black Edition WD1002FAEX)
Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player/DVD Writer (Play Blu-Ray and Burn DVDs) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 1.2GB (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional (PCI-Express Slot Based)
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: Noctua Dual 120mm Fans High Performance Cooler (Compatible With ONLY i7 Processors)
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Upgrade Chassis With Zalman Performance Fans (Up to 6 Fans) Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Green)
Enhancements: Touch V12XT Aerocool Temperature Display & Fan Controller (Requires Chassis Airflow Upgrade)
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: Noise Suppression Package Stage 2 (Optimized Airflow & Fan Speeds with Noise Dampening Material)
Boost Processor: FREE: Stage 1: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz (Cooling Upgrade Recommended)
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium (64-Bit Edition)
I know from researching the forum there are some controversial choices, but there are reasons... Case, I would prefer the Haf-X, but it's a little too large for the space I have. PS, I know 750W would be fine for the config, but this build will last me a while, and I want a little room for future video card (single) upgrades. HD, it seems velociraptors are frowned upon, but that would be a dedicated flight sim drive, and FS gurus indicate it does make a difference in this application. Airflow/Noise, I know default cooling in the HAF is good, but I thought the extra fans would help with the CM690. Noise is important to me, as well, so I like the idea of the noise reduction. Finally, I know the V12XT is totally unnecessary, but I like the external temp display and the touch screen is a fun extra.
I wasn't sure on the OS drive, 40GB X-25V vs 80GB X-25M, or video card... GTX460 and overclock, GTX470, or bust the bank for the GTX480? Thoughts? Am I totally crazy here, or is my thinking reasonable? Edited by Sigwolf - 09 Sep 2010 at 8:33pm |
|
 |
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran 
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 Sep 2010 at 9:02pm |
|
first id say that the 1000w just isnt needed, but i wont tell you not to buy it, ill just add that technically, nvidia claims that a 600w is all you need for a 480, and i expect these numbers wont increase rush since there was such a terrible market backlash at the power consumption from these cards
either way, i see where your head is, and if its not over budget, then by all means go for it
the raptor drive... eh.. i mean, if they can show % gains or not, consider this, you chose 1 80gb SSD + 150 gb raptor + 1tb standard ... consider
1 40gb ssd (windows/apps) + 1 40gb ssd (FSX) + 1tb standard
this puts you way ahead of the raptors performance and $160 in your pocket...
noisewise... the haf 932 is just the best choice, the fans are bigger, which means they spin slower, and give you better cooling with less noise. the cost of the 690+noise2 package is MORE than the haf 932, louder, and worse cooling
and the size difference is not too significant, especially with those factors
690 20.65" x 8.39" x 18.98"
932 22.70" x 9.00" x 21.50"
touch display is fun, you wont use it, but it does look cool, so if you want it get it!
video card is just budget... gaming is all about video, fsx is cpu dependent, but at near 4ghz id imagine it would not be bottlenecked, i dont play, so i dont know. almost any other game is all video power, so get as much as you can afford
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Sep 2010 at 8:54pm |
|
Thanks for the input, Ender. To give some insight on my PS thinking... the computer I am replacing was put together in May, 2001, so I don't do this very often.
 I figured the extra breathing room might be a good idea. I might still back it down to the 750W. I've gone back and forth.
Drives... I would *love* to use an SSD for FS instead of a Raptor. The problem is that 40GB isn't even in the ballpark for capacity, and even 80GB would be pushing it (*lots* of add-ons), so at that point it just becomes cost prohibitive. I would probably replace the Raptor down the road when the 160GB SSD's become more affordable. That said, if the Raptor would give me better performance for FS than a standard HD, it would be worth it for me.
Case... unfortunately the 2+" inch difference is the breaker. It will be going under a closed-back desk, so that 2" is the difference between sitting flush with the desk, and sticking out a few inches to get in the way, and get smacked by knees, chairs, etc. I really like the HAF, but if I have to settle on the 690, I thought the fan/noise upgrades made sense, even though it costs more.
Video... I think I'll stick with the 470 rather than bumping down to 460. I don't think the gains are enough to justify the cost increase for the 480, especially since video card technology improves quickly, and this is likely the first thing that will get replaced in a year or two.
Thanks again for the help. It's good to hear other points of view.
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 7:55pm |
|
I've tried twice via e-mail to get answers about the CAS latency and timings of the 6GB DDR3 options, and I've pretty much been ignored. Does anyone know the specs for the memory DSO offers?
6GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series
6GB DDR3 2000MHz GTX-8 Digital Storm Certified Extreme Performance
6GB DDR3 1600MHz Corsair Dominator with DHX Extreme Edition
6GB DDR3 1600MHz Corsair Dominator with DHX Extreme Edition (CMP6GX...)
6GB DDR3 1600MHz Corsair Dominator GT with DHX Extreme Edition (CMT6GX...)
Why is the Corsair Dominator listed twice with a $20 difference, with the only name difference being a bunch of letters and numbers at the end of the description? |
|
|
|
|
Dragoonseal
DS Veteran
Joined: 03 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2247 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 8:12pm |
This is 9-9-9-24. I don't know the timings of any of the others, but it doesn't matter none of them are worth the money, you will get almost absolutely no performance gains from slightly tighter timings or even going up to the 2000MHz memory. Memory is for feeding the CPU data, once your memory is at a good speed and isn't bottlenecking your CPU then there are minimal gains to be had. And triple channel 1600MHz 9-9-9-24 memory is definitely not bottlenecking an overclocked 950. |
|
|
Lilim
Intel Core i7 920 @4.2GHz HAF 932 - Dual SLI Nvidia GTX 480s 3x Intel X25-M G2 (80GB) SSD RAID0 |
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 8:23pm |
|
Thanks, Dragoonseal. I have been piecing information from various sources, but it seems to be a pretty good concensus on the Avsim forums that a CL of 8 or even 7 is preferred for MS Flight Sim. MSFS is a strange beast with different needs than most gaming and has been indicated that fasting timings can help with graphical 'stutters' in texture loading that are independent of GPU or processor speed.
Do you use MSFS at all, or have information or opinion that this would not be the case? Edited by Sigwolf - 16 Sep 2010 at 8:23pm |
|
|
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 9:05pm |
|
seems pretty unlikely as the cas timings have, as dragoon said, minimal impacts inside of a reasonable range
the standard 1600mhz ram is plenty, from what i understand, the flight sim is strongly based on a solid processor oc.. but i have not played
|
|
|
|
|
justin.kerr
DS Veteran
Joined: 06 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5084 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 9:47pm |
|
Dragoonseal is correct for the most part. Most all games, utilities, and apps, will not have much benefit from going with faster RAM. There are always exceptions, but like Bender says they will be minimal, 10% performance gain would be the MAX difference, typical would be 1%-5%, but the sad part is that if you take identical machines, and on one change the 1600 Mhz CAS 9 RAM out and put in 1600 Mhz CAS 7 RAM in, and I tweak the sub timings on the CAS 9 RAM, and the CAS 7 RAM is left with AUTO sub timings, the CAS 9 RAM will be equal to the CAS 7.. lol |
|
|
|
|
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 10:19pm |
|
yea which is why sub timings are important to learn but it is not fun.
|
|
|
|
|
AndydViking
Senior Member 
Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 733 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 1:15am |
How much performance loss for setting RAM command rate to 2t? I've read 2-5% or so, is this accurate? I had to do this as I'm filling all 6 dimm and overclocking my RAM a bit. BTW Justin thanks for those modified drivers you pointed out to me for the 5870. Edited by AndydViking - 17 Sep 2010 at 1:17am |
|
|
|
|
justin.kerr
DS Veteran
Joined: 06 May 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5084 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 Sep 2010 at 9:17am |
|
setting RAM to command rate of 2T will effect other sub-timings, so with some tweaking, it will have a very minimal effect, even if the RAM is specced out for command rate of 2T, it will run the same speed, and CAS timings with command of 1T, as long as the other sub-timings are adjusted.
If you use a program like CPU tweaker, and take a snippet of all the sub-timings with your RAM at 2T, then re-start and change the BIOS to 1T, and then pull up CPU tweaker again, you will see that on AUTO, there will be a chunk of sub timings that were changed by the BIOS, assuming you have main-stream RAM that the BIOS has presets built in to accurately adjust.
I would use a few of the RAM bandwidth tools, to bench your settings, and you should find that you can run at 1T by loosening some of the other sub-timings, but keep an eye on the benchmarks, to make sure you are not losing performance. It seriously can take weeks to get it to work out... lol pay very close attention to the RTL settings, they are the hardest to setup, but offer a large performance/stability gain.
your welcome on the drivers, try to do it step by step as the directions say, and use the modded INF, you will get better results.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 1:38pm |
|
After much delay, I think I am finally getting close to ordering. After reading a lot here, and discussing it with Sarah via e-mail, I have decided to ditch the Zalman upgrade, noise reduction, and Touch V12XT :-(. I also decided to go with the HAF-X instead of the 690. I am sticking with the standard 6GB memory option.
With 3 HD's and 2 OD's along with everything else, I think I am going to go with the 1000w PS, also leaving room for future video card upgrades. Is there any reason at all/any benfit to going with the Corsair 1000w over the DS recommended?
I was considering the 500GB hybrid drive for the dedicated Flight Simulator drive, but have read a lot of negatives about their reliability on the net. I decided the 300GB velociraptor might be safer. Anyone have any experience with the hybrid?
Final touches... lighting. I kind of want the green lighting, but I am not sure how it will look with the front red led fan. Has anyone done this? I am go with blue, or just stick with all red for uniformity.
Any other input is appreciated...
new ticket #445661
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master 942 HAF X Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Quad Core) Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI 3 Edition (Intel X58 Chipset) (Features USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s) (Model: 131-GT-E767) System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested) Power Supply: 1000W Digital Storm Certified (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Highly Recommended) Expansion Bay: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (80GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: X25-M MLC Edition) (Extreme Performance) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache) Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (64MB Cache) (Model: Black Edition WD1002FAEX) Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: Blu-Ray Player/DVD Player (Play Blu-Ray and Play DVDs) Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 1.2GB (Includes PhysX Technology) Add-on Card: - No Thanks Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional (PCI-Express Slot Based) Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: Noctua NH-U12P SE Dual 120mm Fans High Performance Cooler (i7 Processors Only) H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Green) Enhancements: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Noise Reduction: - No Thanks Boost Processor: FREE: Stage 1: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz (Cooling Upgrade Recommended) Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows 7 CD) Virus Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks Benchmarking: - No Thanks Install/Test Game: FREE: Hot-selling game with a NVIDIA GeForce GTS 250 or above graphics card Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks External Storage: - No Thanks Exclusive T-Shirt: FREE: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Large) Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty Edited by Sigwolf - 08 Oct 2010 at 7:33pm |
|
|
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 2:07pm |
|
looks pretty good, i cant support getting a raptor drive, standard or ssd, otherwise its just not worth it imo
the corsair vs tech power supply, its really about brand. specwise, they look similar, but ive yet to find any tests on the tech nps power supplies since they arent sold retail, only oem
i will say at least that the corsair psu comes with a 5 year warranty vs the tech nps 2 year.. so thats something?
as far as lighting, there is a picture of red and green together in my build log, but lighting is all preference, theres no right answer, just get red and green, why not?
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 4:45pm |
|
Thanks, Ender. Do you know if both the Tech and Corsair 1000w's are single rail?
|
|
|
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 4:52pm |
|
sadly neither is, though ive read a lot on this and it seems that it doesnt really matter, AND both are modular which im not thrilled about either. justin is pushing for DS to carry the hx850, which is supposively very good, the main differences are
corsair has 2 12v rails vs technps has 4
the tech nps claims to be more effecient
corsair comes with a 5 year warranty vs the tech nps 2 year |
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 5:00pm |
|
Thanks again.
 That's good information. I had been planning to stick with the Tech, but I just might go with the Corsair now. I'm not thrilled with modular, either, especially since I know DS will go a good job with the wiring anyway. I would prefer the reliability of the hard-wired. The hx850 would be perfect for me (though modular, as well)... I'm not quite comfortable with the headroom on the 750, and the 1000 is likely overkill. Bummer. Edited by Sigwolf - 05 Oct 2010 at 5:02pm |
|
|
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 5:07pm |
|
yea a 750 is really great for your setup, but it will prevent you from ever adding a 2nd video card, a lesson i learned the hard way. id probably go with the 1000w as well
its just tough to tell what the real comparison of the technps and the corsair is without real tests :(
that 5 year warranty is pretty tough for me to ignore, and the main factor swaying me to the corsair 1000w
oh and if you didnt see it in the guide, the corsair 750 is not modular and is on a single 12v Edited by !ender_ - 05 Oct 2010 at 5:09pm |
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 5:16pm |
|
>>>oh and if you didnt see it in the guide, the corsair 750 is not modular and is on a single 12v
Ya, ya, rub it in...
 I saw it, but I get a new computer so infrequently I just have to leave extra headroom for future upgrades. |
|
|
|
|
!ender_
DS Veteran
Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4219 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 at 5:23pm |
|
i got the 750 and its done really well but i want to sli 470s and while 750 can technically handle that i refuse to try it without the headroom, so its looking like the 1000w for me =(
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 7:51pm |
|
I just noticed when you select "View Gallery" for the HAF X from the case selection screen, the fan sizes listed on the picture captions are way off. It says the front fan is 140mm instead of 230mm, and lists the back fan as 120mm instead of 140mm. Can I assume someone just screwed up and listed fans off a different case when the captions were made, or does DS really use smaller than standard fan sizes with the HAF X?
|
|
|
|
|
maxyme
DS Veteran
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1514 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 Oct 2010 at 11:25pm |
|
yea i think they are wrong. heres what the coolermaster website says: Up to 1 x 230 mm red LED fan and 3 x 200 mm fans so i guess its wrong.
http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6653 |
|
|
Steam:pcmaster160
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 7:30pm |
|
I finally stopped agonizing over all the details and submitted my order. Stage 1 complete... waiting begins...
|
|
|
|
|
Alex
Admin Group 
Digital Storm Supervisor 
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 16314 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Oct 2010 at 8:08pm |
 you are now part of an elite group of enthusiasts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sigwolf
Newbie
Joined: 09 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 34 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 10:57pm |
|
The good news is it shipped today... the bad news is delivery is scheduled for next Tuesday 10/26. It's going to be a lonnnnnng week.
Overclocked Processor Settings Processor Speed GHz: 3.9
CPU Multiplier: 22
Voltage CPU VCore: 1.3875
VDroop Control: Yes
i7 - BCLK MHz: 179
i7 - Voltage QPI\DRAM:
i7 - Voltage QPI\PLL:
i7 - Voltage CPU VTT: 175
i7 - Voltage IOH Vcore:
i7 - Voltage ICH Vcore:
i7 - Voltage IOH/ICH I/O:
i7 - PWM Frequency:
780i/790i - Memory Clock Mode:
780i/790i - CPU FSB MHz:
780i/790i - Voltage FSB:
780i/790i - Voltage SPP:
780i/790i - Voltage MCP:
Overclocked Video Card Settings Core MHz: 627 Memory MHz: 847
Shader MHz: 1254
Motherboard BIOS: 6774 Video Card Driver: 258.96
Chipset Driver: CD
Sound Card Driver: CD Edited by Sigwolf - 20 Oct 2010 at 11:03pm |
|
|
|
|
Alex
Admin Group
Digital Storm Supervisor
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 16314 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 1:17am |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
MagiK
DS Veteran
Joined: 25 Aug 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1074 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 Oct 2010 at 5:41pm |
|
Ha! You think waiting for it to get there next tuesday is the LONG wait, the waiting to have time to really mess with it till the following Saturday (or Friday night) is going to seem like MONTHS
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |
About Digital Storm
Contact Information
Facility Tour
Financing
Buy Now, Pay Later
Downloads
GSA Schedule
Terms & Conditions
Privacy Policy
Request Help
Call: 1-866-817-8676
(Hours 9AM-5PM PST)
Topic Options