In need of some help/advice.

Hey guys,

My +6-year old Beast is getting tired and cranky, so I’m shopping around for a new gaming PC. I’m not a techie by any stretch, but I do have some idea of what I think I need (based on what I've been reading on the web for the past month or so). Yet I'm still relying on my instincts more than anything else when I try to figure out exactly what I need. There are just too many things that I'm unsure about.

Budget: $3000 (but my config attempts keep coming out a bit higher than that).

Expectations: I would like to be able to run all the current games (and flightsims) at high FPS, with most settings on max. Plus I want a system that will not need to be updated for at least a few years.

Usage: Games (I’m an avid gamer) and Flightsims (FSX, X-Plane, DCS); web design (I run a girl-gamer website and a gaming forum); modding tools, including programs for modeling and sound edits (I make huge overhaul mods for RPG games like Fallout 3).

Special Needs: Getting the best system I can afford, with all the various components well matched (making sure that no item is causing a performance bottle neck).

Saved Ticket #: 848609

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Digital Storm ODE V3
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 4770K 3.50 GHz (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth Z87 (Intel Z87 Chipset) (Features Thermal Armor and Thermal Radar)
System Memory: 16GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance Pro (High-Performance)
Power Supply: 1050W Corsair Pro Silver 1050HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (512GB Solid State (By: Samsung) (Model: 840 Pro Series)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (Model: Black Edition)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: Wireless PCI-E 802.11n Up to 300Mbps (Supports 802.11n/g/b) (Model: ASUS PCE-N15)
Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 3GB (Includes PhysX)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 Extreme Performance
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU 4.0GHz to 4.4GHz
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8 (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: FREE: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Medium)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty

Stuff that I'm unsure about:
1.) What is the latency of the 16GB DDR3 2133MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) memory?
2.) Is the 16GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance Pro made up of two 8GB sticks? (I'd like to have the option of being able to add two more 8GB sticks in the future).
3.) Will the Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 CPU cooler fit ok in the Digital Storm ODE V3 case?
4.) Is the Corsair Vengeance Pro memory compatible with the Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 CPU cooler (as in, can all 4 memory slots be populated, without having to remove the memory's heat spreaders)?
5.) Why are the DS Graphic Cards "!SPECIAL:" only available for the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 cards? [What about the superclocked versions of the 770 and 780 card?]
6.) How would I benefit from getting Microsoft Windows 8 Professional over the regular version of Windows 8 (64-Bit Editions)?
7.) Is there anything that is going to be a performance issue (as in, not being able to keep up with everything else)?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edited 7/12/13 [now includes my latest build, along with my latest questions].

Edited by Arwen - 12 Jul 2013 at 8:07am

Consider a ASUS Z87-Deluxe if you want built in wireless

Originally posted by ScottishBattleAx Consider a ASUS Z87-Deluxe if you want built in wireless

Thanks, but the ASUS Z87-Deluxe is not offered in the config menu. The only choices are:
- ASUS Sabertooth Z87
- ASUS Gryphon Z87
- ASUS H87I-PLUS
- ASUS MAXIMUS VI EXTREME (which I can't afford)
- ASUS Z87-C
- ASUS Z87M-PLUS

Originally posted by bprat22 Hi Arwen ...  You put together a real nice rig.  For wifi it would be the Deluxe, special order, or the more expensive Extreme 4.  Cheaper to do what you did, and just external dongle or internal board.

I wish Digital Storm would add the Asus Z87-Deluxe to their standard config choices. Its only ~$30 more than the Sabertooth (the $45 special order fee currently makes it an overly expensive option).

Here's another config to check out.   I dropped to the i5-4670k chip to save money.  The Hyperthreading in the 4770k is little used, especially for gaming.  It does help in some apps and probably a few games but the difference is small.

My main reason for the i7-4770 is that X-Plane 10 apparently really benefits from hyper-threading. This one was a tough decision, as the i5-4770 is $132 more ... but some X-Plane 10 users convinced me that the performance increase was worth the extra cost.

I dropped to the 1600Mhx ram.  Other then synthetic benchs, the real world difference is little or nothing.  If others are saying they see a difference then maybe so, but is it a modern cpu/mobo combo?  Can't say for sure.  Go with your gut on this one.

My instincts are pushing me towards the 1866MHz ... my choice of the Corsair is because the Digital Storm Certified Performance Series memory specs never give what its latency is ... which I'm pretty sure is just as important as its speed.

I dropped to the smaller Gryphon mobo.  It allows sli but not another card like the WiFi at the same time so I changed to the usb dongle.

I tend to fill up USB slots pretty fast (headset, joystick, keyboard, mouse, steering wheel, pedals, and my ipod). Plus I'd much rather go with a wifi card. My cable modem and router are a ways from where my PC is located, and I also need to connect to a wifi printer.

A lot of this change was to get you a sli, gtx 770 setup for a bit less than your single 780.   Sli 770 will play great on pretty much any single monitor.  No need to add another card later, plus the 1050HX is a great psu.  sli 770 is much better performance than single 780.

I really appreciate your efforts, and I did consider going with two 770 GTX's. But then I learned that when you SLI two cards, your VRAM is not actually doubled, so I would end up with only 2GBs, where the 780 gives me 3GBs (and 2GBs of VRAM is not quite enough for some flightsims, if you want to use the highest meshes and textures). EVGA recently released their 770 4GB Classified version, which I would perhaps consider, if it was offered in the config (and then I could add a second one when I could afford it).

Thanks sooo much for all your suggestions!

Arwen... You've certainly done your homework.      X Plane 10 is one of the few games, the other being Skyrim, that might use more vram effectively.   I've never been convinced the extra vram actually increases frames but is a caching task because its there, but I could be wrong. My only other thought is to consider the level 3 ODE as a place to start.   X Plane 10 appears to love as many cpu cores as you can throw at it, unlike the poorly optimized FSX and relatively light weight DCS titles which I've played on max with an older gtx 560.   The i7-3930k chip is 6 core and 12 hyper, the 4770k is 4/8 core.    Also, the x79 mobo is a quad channel ram board vs x87 dual channel ram.    Much higher bandwidth.   But, and heres the rub, more $$$ by a few hundred.     Might be worth decreasing SSD and HDD size to make it work.   Alot easier to add a drive later.

Just some of my rambling for you to consider.    Either way, you have a sweet rig in the works.

Good luck.

Originally posted by bprat22 Arwen... You've certainly done your homework.      X Plane 10 is one of the few games, the other being Skyrim, that might use more vram effectively.   I've never been convinced the extra vram actually increases frames but is a caching task because its there, but I could be wrong. My only other thought is to consider the level 3 ODE as a place to start.   X Plane 10 appears to love as many cpu cores as you can throw at it, unlike the poorly optimized FSX and relatively light weight DCS titles which I've played on max with an older gtx 560.   The i7-3930k chip is 6 core and 12 hyper, the 4770k is 4/8 core.    Also, the x79 mobo is a quad channel ram board vs x87 dual channel ram.    Much higher bandwidth.   But, and heres the rub, more $$$ by a few hundred.     Might be worth decreasing SSD and HDD size to make it work.   Alot easier to add a drive later. Just some of my rambling for you to consider.    Either way, you have a sweet rig in the works. Good luck.

Thanks! I had originally considered another AMD system (which is what I have now), because of additional cores. But I decided to got with an Intel system this time, as the current consensus is that Intel systems run games a bit better. When I first looked at the Intel 6-core systems, I was put off by their higher price.

But now I've ended up with a config that is not the much less, so I guess I need to do a bit more homework and see what I can come up with and then try to figure out if the addition costs might be worth the performance increase.

My biggest issue is that I've already gone over my budget. So whichever way I go, I have to follow your suggestion, and go with smaller hard drives. Or I may just wait another month or so, until I can afford to spend a bit more, and get exactly what I need instead of compromising.

Patience is not something that I'm at all good at, and I've been wanting to upgrade my PC for 18 months (I actually ordered a new PC in Dec 2011, but it arrived broken ... twice. That made me so frustrated with the entire process that I just gave up.)

Thanks, Subxero. :)

I just finished trying out a Sandy Bridge-E (i7-3930K) config, and it ends up being about $400 to $500 more expensive than my Haswell config (i7-4770K), which ends up being more than I really want to spend on a system. Plus I'm not convinced that I'll notice much of a performance difference when playing games/flightsims. And the Sandy Bridge-E will be outdated in just a few months, when the Ivy Bridge-E comes out.

So I'm going to stick with the Haswell . . . unless I change my mind again.

I'll likely also stick with the Corsair 800W power supply. While it would be nice to have the option of being able to add another 780 GTX in the future, I know that I would likely never do that (at least not for a few years). Right now I'm thinking that I'd be better off upgrading to the EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Superclocked with EVGA ACX Cooler (which ends up being about the same cost). It's about 9% faster than the regular 780.

I may also end up with a smaller SSD (and add another one in the future). It will all depend on what I can afford at the end of the month.

You can go crazy trying to make a system "future proof," which is really not possible . . . no matter how much you spend. My current system is a Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core AM2 5200+ @2.6GHz, with 4GB of system memory, a GeForce GTX 260 GPU, running a 32 bit version of Vista . . . so I know that I'm going to see a HUGE improvement, not matter how much I tweak this. I do want the best system that I can afford (which is why I asked for advice here), but I don't want to have to wait too much longer, just because I configured a system that I cannot really afford.

Thanks Nerek387, before posting here I emailed customer service with my biggest configuration questions (and received answers to most). My cooling and other specs are all listed in my original post in this thread, but I'm still a bit lost about the overclocking/cooling part (see below).

=========================================================
Guys,

I'm still struggling with how much I should have my 4770K overclocked (along with what cooler I need).

My config (the one in my original post) included:
- Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU 4.0GHz to 4.4GHz
- Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex 120mm Radiator Liquid CPU Cooler (High-Performance Edition).

I've read that Haswell has some overheating issues, so I'm a bit wary of having my system overclocked too much (because I need it to last me a long time, and I want it to be very stable). But I have no idea what is a safe overclocking amount for the 4770K (I've attempted to research this, but there are so many conflicting views that I still have no idea what to do).

I really don't want to go higher than H2O: Stage 2 liquid cooling. But do you think I would be ok if I went one step higher, or is it safer to stick with my current config? This is what I mean by "one step higher" :
- Boost Processor to Stage 2: Overclock CPU 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz.
- Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Corsair H100i 240mm Radiator Liquid CPU Cooler (Extreme-Performance Edition).

Edited by Arwen - 02 Jul 2013 at 6:34am

Arlen - from what I have heard on the over clocking of the new Haswell chips is that they don't take to it very well. You don't have to over clock! The Haswell improves performance mainly in laptops. I had a q6600 Intel core 2 quad that performed really well, until the mother board blew. If you need guidance I would recommend Gerado in sales. He is very good, and will look out for your best interests.

I have the noctua in my system and the system arrived perfectly fine. Course it was through USPS

Edited by ArkansasWoman777 - 02 Jul 2013 at 9:26am

Originally posted by Subxero Arlen - from what I have heard on the over clocking of the new Haswell chips is that they don't take to it very well. You don't have to over clock! The Haswell improves performance mainly in laptops. I had a q6600 Intel core 2 quad that performed really well, until the mother board blew. If you need guidance I would recommend Gerado in sales. He is very good, and will look out for your best interests.

Again, the issue is with flightsims, which have to process a LOT more textures and meshes than any game. If I was only setting up a system for games, I would save some money and just get a i5-4670K and not overclock it. All I'm hoping for is a 4770K, overclocked to 4.3GHz or so. Thanks for the tip on contacting Gerado in sales. BTW: my name is Arwen (I wouldn't mind the mistake, but Arwen is my real name.)

Originally posted by ArkansasWoman777 I have the noctua in my system and the system arrived perfectly fine. Course it was through USPS

Thanks, but you haven't met my FedEx gorillas. My last computer arrive with both hard drives rattling around loose in the case, and the graphics card had nearly flattened out its PCI slot, bending it over on top of the motherboard. I cried when I opened the box and saw the damage.

Edited by Arwen - 02 Jul 2013 at 12:14pm

I have the 600T White case, one of the first ODE configs from the summer of 2011. Its a real nice case. Go for it.   

Thanks bprat22 and Nerek387, :) I've been busy with company and work so haven't been able to focus on my config until just recently.

Last night I spent some time reading reviews of the Noctua D14 SE2011 and now I'm considering adding one to my build (instead of the Corsair H100i). The thing is, I'm only going for the Stage 1 CPU Boost, and I'm just not totally comfortable with liquid cooling systems, so this seems like it might be the best choice for me after all. I was initially turned off (make that "shocked!") by how massive the Noctua is, and am still concerned that it could damage the motherboard during shipping. I'm about as far from Digital Storm as you can be, while still being in the US, and my previous system (from another company) arrived damaged twice (I never gave them a third chance).

Here are my remaining concerns about the Noctua D14:
1.) Does DS do anything special to secure the Noctua D14 during shipping?
2.) Will it fit ok in the CORSAIR Graphite CC600TW case?
3.) My final concern is that the Noctua D14 will not allow room for the Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX memory (because of the memory's heat-spreader). So I would need to change to a low profile memory stick. The only issue it that none of the "Digital Storm Certified Performance Series" gives its latency . . . and I really hate not knowing exactly what I'm getting.

Edited by Arwen - 09 Jul 2013 at 7:04am

Thanks, ArkansasWoman777, that makes me feel much better.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to go with the Noctua D14 cooler (I'm just hoping that FedEx is a bit gentler this time).

I had also picked Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX memory, but apparently that will not fit under the Noctua (because of the heat spreaders). But I recently found out that the Corsair Vengeance Pro memory should fit, and that is an easy compromise (as the Dominator memory is a bit expensive).

Your best bet Arwen is to email management or call the sales line. You can get emails confirming their statements. Good luck!

For the graphics cards they do not specify specify specific models because they stock different brands at different times...probably dependent on the best price they can get for each batch. So... It is a case of "you'll get what you're given", eg an MSi, EVGA or whatever they have.

If you want to be specific you can do so but it will be classed as a special order and incur a fee of $90 extra per card. At least that's what I was told when I asked for a 780 EVGA SC ACX. You should ask them for any specific card you are considering.

They are listing the 680 deal right now because they must actually have stock of that card they want to shift.

Edited by ScottishBattleAx - 12 Jul 2013 at 9:13am

Here are the answers that I received from Digital Storm to my above questions (just in case anyone else has similar questions):

1.) What is the latency of the 16GB DDR3 2133MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) memory?
It is CL10-11-11-30 Voltage is 1.65

2.) Is the 16GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance Pro made up of two 8GB sticks? (I'd like to have the option of being able to add two more 8GB sticks in the future).
We use 2x8GB ram sticks. This leaves you with the option to upgrade to 32GB of ram.

3.) Will the Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 CPU cooler fit ok in the Digital Storm ODE V3 case?
While the NH-D14 does fit in the case, the size of the cooler limits the type of ram you can use. You need to use a low profile ram like the DS certified.

4.) Is the Corsair Vengeance Pro memory compatible with the Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 CPU cooler (as in, can all 4 memory slots be populated, without having to remove the memory's heat spreaders)?
The Corsair Vengeance Pro is not compatible do to the size of the heat spreaders.

This was the only question that I received conflicting answers to. When I use the "Have a Digital Storm technician review your customized configuration and contact you during business hours:" form, with my build that included both the Corsair Vengeance Pro memory and the Noctua NH-D14 the technician replied:
Your configuration looks great and compatible.

Plus, on the NH-D14 RAM Compatbility page, the Corsair Vengeance Pro series is listed as being compatible (without removing the heat spreader bar). The regular Corsair Vengeance sticks (the non Pro series) are however listed as not being compatible.

5.) Why are the DS Graphic Cards "!SPECIAL:" only available for the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 cards? [What about the superclocked versions of the 770 and 780 card?]
The GTX 680 cards are marked as special because we are in the process of discontinuing the cards. As for the 770 and 780 super clocked cards, we will begin offering them once the cards are available as a regular product and not on a limited quantity.

6.) How would I benefit from getting Microsoft Windows 8 Professional over the regular version of Windows 8 (64-Bit Editions)?
The biggest difference between 8 and 8 Pro is the networking ability. Pro allows you to connect to more networks at the same time, good if you are in an office environment. Plus it allows for remote connection to your system.

That may be the reason, but if that is true, Noctua should not have these RAM sticks listed as being compatible. Plus I was just looking at a review of the ASUS Maximus VI Extreme motherboard, and it they actually used BOTH in their testing, as shown in these two images:
http://www.pcper.com/image/view/25152?return=node%2F57333
http://www.pcper.com/image/view/25153?return=node%2F57333

Yes, it's a bit tight, but it seems to work just fine. It's no big deal, but now I'm having second thoughts about using the Noctua cooler, if it makes things this tight. And just when I thought I was done with having to make any more decisions about this!