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Post Date: 2009-03-30

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Okovo View Drop Down
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  Quote Okovo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Input needed
    Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 8:06pm
I am about to graduate high school and have asked my parents for an extreme performance gaming computer, they have yet to give me a maximum price but seeing as how my sister received a new car for her graduation I think it is safe to assume it will be fairly high. I built my current system freshman year for around $1000 and it has lasted me till now(was nothing special but became greater than the sum of its parts 6600gt,AMD 64athalon, 2GB RAM). So needless to say it is time for an upgrade. This computer is mainly going to be for hardcore gaming and CAD programs as I will be majoring in Architecture and I want it to last me through 6 to 8 years with minor upgrades(RAM and later graphics cards) considering the cost of it and the fact that my $1000 system lasted 3 years. So here is my current build I have changed it too many times to count.

Ticket Number: 265027
Total Price with Instant Savings: $6,030.00

Direct Load URL: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=265027

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 Classified 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 2000MHz Corsair Dominator GT (Extreme-Performance)
Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (32GB Solid State (By: OCZ) (High Performance)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache) (Extreme Speed)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Quad (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB) (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: Specialized FrostBite Separate Dual Loop System for CPU & Two GTX 295 Video Cards
Liquid Color:Black: Non-conductive High-Performance Fluid (Requires H20: Stage 3 Cooling Package)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: McAfee Internet Security (Includes: AntiVirus, FireWall and AntiSpyware)
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: 3D Mark Vantage Advanced Edition (By: Futuremark) (Pre-Install) (Vista Compatible Only)
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: Acer 24 inch (Widescreen) (Black) (High-Performance Gaming Display)
Surge Shield: APC 1500VA Uninterruptible Backup Surge Conditioner (Recommended)
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Large)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty

For the longest time I had the i7 965 as the processor but found after hours of searching that the 920 could overclock stable to over 4Ghz with proper cooling and after seeing that result time and again I decided the 965 wasn't worth the extra money. The SSD I have for my OS is for the OS only and nothing else other wise I would have used a larger one. The Velociraptor is for my games till the price of a fast large SSD comes down to where it isn't such a large price to GB ratio, and does anyone know the projected price for the Vertex 2 that I have seen a lot of talk about on these forums? Also is ESA effective, I have heard mixed emotions about it some say it works terrific some say it sucks.


Edited by Okovo - 30 Mar 2009 at 8:07pm
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Onkel_Ken View Drop Down
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  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 8:27pm
I think that several people would suggest that liquid cooling the GPUs might not be a great idea.  It would make recovery from a simple problem with a bad GPU turn into having to return the system for maintenance compared to just getting a replacement card sent to you.  The GPUs have a high speed fan in them that blow out the back of the system and seem to be effective for most people.
 
The liquid cooling of the 920 CPU is a good idea and will allow DS to OC it to its highest level.  But here too every 920 is a little different and yours may get higher or lower than others.  I was very happy to get 3.59 on air with a V8 on my 920.
 
Hopefully you have reviewed the configuration discussions for awhile already.  There is a wealth of advice within.
 
If I was going to put that much money into a system I would get a nice add on audio card for gaming.  I have the X-Fi Titanium Champion Series and it allows you to hear full 360 degree 3D sound with elevation in games.  It is very awesome!
 
You will love the 295 graphic card.  I also have the 300GB Velociraptor for games and have a standard 500GB for music and video stuff.
 
In a few hours or less there should be several people jumping in here with comments.  Pay heed to those folks that have helped others based upon their own experiences.
 
I bet you are going to enjoy your new beast once it arrives.  By the way, if you decide to go with the liquid cooling for the GPUs I would strongly suggest getting the wooden crate option to minimize the potential for the heavy GPU water cooling assemblies to come loose during shipping.
 
Good luck and welcome to the Digital Storm family!!!!!
 
Ermm
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<8) slunK parade View Drop Down
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  Quote <8) slunK parade Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 8:34pm
youll save a sh*t load of $ by not watercooling the graphics cards, which you dont need too do mate

also you need to change the ram speed
you cant use 2000mhz ram with the 920

1600 or lower my frnd

another thing i would suggest is just getting 2 gtx 285s
unless you have a monster monitor then keep thte 295's
lastly get windows vista home premium 64bit

edit*
thats wat i would change:

System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Corsair Dominator DHX (High-Performance)

Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285 1GB) (Includes PhysX Technology)

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU

Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)

the overall price goes from about 6000 to 4200

i dont thnk ESA works with the x58 chipset



Edited by <8) slunK parade - 30 Mar 2009 at 8:43pm
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 8:43pm
what resolution are going to be gaming at?

never mind I see you picked a monitor, ok:

here you go Ticket# 265082 --- Price: $4487 (To see this build click here) Price after current promotion $4187

Copy of Specifications:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 Classified 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified)
Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Quad (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB) (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU
Liquid Color:Black: Non-conductive High-Performance Fluid (Requires H20: Stage 3 Cooling Package)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: McAfee Internet Security (Includes: AntiVirus, FireWall and AntiSpyware)
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: 3D Mark Vantage Advanced Edition (By: Futuremark) (Pre-Install) (Vista Compatible Only)
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: Acer 24 inch (Widescreen) (Black) (High-Performance Gaming Display)
Surge Shield: APC 1500VA Uninterruptible Backup Surge Conditioner (Recommended)
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Large)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty

very soon a new ssd is suppose to come out that will blow everything out of the water, its called vertex 2, when it comes out, use it as HDD1 and push the 500GB to HDD2.

Edited by DST4ME - 30 Mar 2009 at 9:17pm
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  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 8:58pm
okovo,
 
I would expect that you will get several more suggestions over the next few hours.  In the end, it will be your system and your decision.  By the way,  don't hesitate to call Digital Storm and let them directly assist you in configuring your dream machine.  With the budget you have, you will definitely get an awesome machine.  I wouldn't rush but take a few days to let the suggestions sink in. 
 
We each have a slightly different idea of what makes a dream machine.  Take a look at the reviews that are posted in the forum.  It will make your mouth water.  Just wait till you sit down for that ultimate gaming experience when you can set everything at MAX setings with all the eye candy turned on.  I just love the experience of playing COD WAW with everything maxed out.  It seems almost too real!!!!!
 
Don't forget the pictures when your new system arrives!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Heart 


Edited by Onkel_Ken - 30 Mar 2009 at 8:59pm
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Okovo View Drop Down
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  Quote Okovo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 9:41pm
Is there a performance difference between the Mushkin and the Corsair Dominator DHX? Between 1333Mhz and 1600Mhz?

Would adding after market fans be worth the money? Not necessarily the ones that they have listed here but just high performance after market fans.

Are non motherboard NIC's worth the money?

DST4ME, I did ask about the Vertex 2 and if anyone knew the projected price for it.

That monitor was just a place holder to help me calculate total cost, I intend to get one of the new 27'' 1080p LG monitors or some equivalent of that(suggestions please).

The hard drives, I want to have my OS on its own hard drive. I like to keep my OS, games, and media separate except I don't want multiple partitions on a drive. so the SSD would be fast enough to load the OS but small enough that I am not wasting too much space, the Velociraptor is for games only and I will use my old internal 256GB and my external 750GB for media and school files.

Changes:

System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified)

Optical Drive 2: Blu-Ray Player & DVD Reader (Play Blu-Ray & Read DVD Media)

Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion (Includes Front I/O) (PCI-Express Slot Based)
 
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU

LCD Display: - No Thanks

Ticket Number: 265106



Edited by Okovo - 30 Mar 2009 at 10:05pm
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bullseyehk View Drop Down
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  Quote bullseyehk Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Mar 2009 at 10:59pm
right now i cant find any info as far as pricing is going to be for the vertex 2 ssd.
the io version is way to expensive and is ment for business storage and its going to be $30 / usable gigabite.  The you and me version, vertex 2, should be way more cheaper then that.

Check into the asus sound card if you want a sound card.  i've noticed that a few of the folks who use audio say thats better then the labs version.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 12:34am
you won't notice the difference between 1333 and 1600MHz ram. mushkin is better has a less chance of craping out, also mushkin might have better timings not sure.

when you say adding fans, which fans are you talking about? fan for the ram? fan for the case? fan for the rad?

if you are asking a lan card is worth it, then if the mobo does not have one yes, otherwise no.

we don't know any pricing for vertex 2 yet, and by we I mean anybody

what ever monitor you go with the quad sli 295 can handle it.

as I mentioned, once the vertex 2 comes out, look at the prices then decide which you will upgrade to and use as your os/apps/games drive. the vertex is what you want all those 3 to be running on so if you want to keep os/apps on one drive and the games on another then get 2 vertex 2 drives.

do you really need a bluray?

as for your new ticket, here:

here you go Ticket# 265153 --- Price: $4145 (To see this build click here) Price after current promotion $3845

Copy of Specifications:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 Classified 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified)
Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: Blu-Ray Player & DVD Reader (Play Blu-Ray & Read DVD Media)
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Quad (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB) (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion (Includes Front I/O) (PCI-Express Slot Based)
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU
Liquid Color:Black: Non-conductive High-Performance Fluid (Requires H20: Stage 3 Cooling Package)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Large)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty
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Okovo View Drop Down
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  Quote Okovo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 6:33pm
Does anyone know what liquid cooling parts are used in the H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU?

Do they allow you to request specific parts not in the selection they have listed in on customization page?
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 6:47pm
you can request what ever parts you like, the rad is most times a GTX 120, reservoir is swiftech and heatsink is Dangerden most times, tho from time to time those parts can be different then what I have posted, but as I said you can request specific parts, I am
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  Quote Instinct Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 8:24pm
I heard the Asus D2x is a better sound card then the Fatal1ty, but the Asus doesn't support EAX 5.0 unlike the Fatal1ty.  There is a list of games that use EAX that can be seen here:

http://www.soundblaster.com/technology/welcome.asp?j1=eax&j2=gamelist

Games like Crysis, COD4, and CS:S don't seem to support EAX so I would go for the Asus as it is a gaming and audiophile sound card, which means it's also better for music.  Quality is also a noticeable difference then the Fatal1ty.

Also, Asus does support EAX 2.0 and it also tells EAX 5.0 games that it is compatible, so Asus can still be used on EAX 5.0 games.

EDIT: The new drivers for the D2X has EAX 5.0 support, but through software.


Edited by Instinct - 31 Mar 2009 at 8:45pm
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  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 10:39pm
I still love the Fatal1ty!  Having it and using it is a real blast when playing games like World at War. The 3d 360 sound effects are cool.  You can hear them trying to sneak up behind you and then you just spin and shoot and get them everytime.  Fatal1ty put his name on this thing for a reason.
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  Quote Instinct Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2009 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by Onkel_Ken

I still love the Fatal1ty!  Having it and using it is a real blast when playing games like World at War. The 3d 360 sound effects are cool.  You can hear them trying to sneak up behind you and then you just spin and shoot and get them everytime.  Fatal1ty put his name on this thing for a reason.


But the question is have you tried both?  I haven't, but I'm going to try Asus' first.
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  Quote Okovo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Apr 2009 at 8:08pm
Ok I think I have finally settled on a build, I am not going to wait for the Vertex 2 as no price as been announced yet. I am going to request a custom cooling system consisting of a Black Ice GTX 360 radiator(I know a bit overkill), Swiftech MPC655 pump, and a Swiftech Apogee GTZ(I think this is their standard waterblock). I want to water cool my northbridge but haven't yet decided if I am going to. I am also going to replace the fans with Scythe S-Flex fans. Also does DS charge extra for a wooden shipping crate rather than a cardboard box?

Copy of Specifications:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 Classified 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified)
Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache) (Extreme Speed)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (1.5TB Seagate Barracuda (7200 RPM) (16MB Cache) (SATA) (Extreme Speed)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Quad (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB) (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion (Includes Front I/O) (PCI-Express Slot Based)
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU
Liquid Color:Green: Non-conductive High-Performance Fluid (Requires H20: Stage 3 Cooling Package)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: McAfee Internet Security (Includes: AntiVirus, FireWall and AntiSpyware)
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: 3D Mark Vantage Advanced Edition (By: Futuremark) (Pre-Install) (Vista Compatible Only)
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Large)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty


Ticket Number: 266332
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Apr 2009 at 8:31pm
your LC system is almost a copy of mine, accept I was going with a Laing D5 pump, my rad is a bit better, you do know that the new Laing 3.2 with a modified head has a better flow then the MPC655

$200 for the crate.

you will pay extra for those parts, it will be pretty much:
$50 extra for the pump, $40 extra for the water block, $90 more for the 360, and I think $65 labor.

what is the cfm of the Scythe fans you want to use?

take into account how long it will take you to scan, search or back-up that storage drive once its to 750GB full.

build looks great, I think with the 920 you should just go with the regular frostbite and not order the parts you have mentioned, we have seen the 920 do 3.8GHz on the regular frostbite, your modifications cost a lot and will not make much of a difference that would be worth all those modifications.

having said all that, your build looks great, IMO it would be better with my modifications

Edited by DST4ME - 03 Apr 2009 at 8:32pm
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