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Liquid Cooling: What are the Pros & Cons

Post Date: 2009-05-19
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B5GkarNarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 170 		  Quote B5GkarNarn Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Liquid Cooling: What are the Pros & Cons
    Posted: 19 May 2009 at 3:57pm
What are the pros & cons of getting a new gaming PC configured with liquid cooling versus air cooling?
 
What criteria does someone take into considerastion when choosing between the different liquid cooling options?
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Zurginator View Drop Down
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Posts: 343 		  Quote Zurginator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 May 2009 at 4:04pm
+
-------
Cooler Parts
Higher overclocks
Usually quieter
Looks really cool (lol, pun)


--
-----
Expensive
More maintenance(Lol, not much but Air has almost no maintenance)


Idk, I made most of those up. xD
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B5GkarNarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 170 		  Quote B5GkarNarn Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 May 2009 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Zurginator

+
-------
Cooler Parts
Higher overclocks
Usually quieter
Looks really cool (lol, pun)


--
-----
Expensive
More maintenance(Lol, not much but Air has almost no maintenance)


Idk, I made most of those up. xD
 
Please describe the maintenance procedures that are generally required for maintaining a liquid cooling system.
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justin.kerr View Drop Down
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 May 2009 at 6:45pm
Every few years you will need to do a complete drain, take apart the block(s) clean. put it back together, fill up with water, or fluid. 
 
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B5GkarNarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 170 		  Quote B5GkarNarn Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 May 2009 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by justin.kerr

Every few years you will need to do a complete drain, take apart the block(s) clean. put it back together, fill up with water, or fluid. 
 
 
That sounds like something that I'm not looking forward to doing.  Thank you for that answer, though.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 May 2009 at 9:00pm
you warranty covers your flush and DS Can walk you thru or you can send it to DS for maintenance. just get the LC on CPU only.

Always remember, what liquid cooling can do, air cooling cannot.

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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 May 2009 at 11:16pm
its not just about OC speed, and LC will get you higher OC on the same chip, most people want the most for the their money, you are content with 3.8GHz and thats great, my encoding and all tasks other then gaming needs and benefits from every bit of speed.

again LC performance has nothing to do with my needs and your needs, just because I have a use for 4.5GHz or not, does not decide whether 4.5GHz is pointless or not, yes it will for me but thats for me, if something is good enough for me that does not mean it should be good enough for everybody else, unless I'm god of course, then maybe and again its not just about oc speed, there are other factors.

if you are getting higher oc in the same setup from air than LC, then somehing is wrong with the LC, otherwise thats like saying 2 + 2 = 5.

the question is what are the pros of LC and that is very simple:

if you know what you are doing, you will get better temps and oc from LC, DS says it themselves so you can hold them to it

a. Air Cooling – This type of cooling uses fans to move air throughout your computer chassis to cool your computer hardware. This form of cooling is relatively affordable and effective. However, air cooling has its limits and isn’t as effective as liquid cooling.

b. Liquid Cooling – This type of cooling utilizes specially formulated liquid to regulate the heat generated by the different components in your system. A complete system consists of a: pump, reservoir tank, liquid blocks, and radiator. Liquid cooling in general increases overclocks significantly compared to air cooling. The down side to liquid cooling is the maintenance that is sometimes (after 2-3 years) required and its price.


Edited by DST4ME - 19 May 2009 at 11:23pm

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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 1:16am
its not my stuff,

1. the quote is DS's quote,

2. as I said if you are getting better temps with air then there is something wrong with your LC setup, again that is not me, that is science, look up heat dissipation and then explain to yourself how air could dissipate more heat then liquid, cause according to science, all things being the same liquid will win that every time. Which is why DS, me and anybody else that knows will tell everybody that all things being the same, LC will bring and keep better temps.

I imagine that people that believe science will believe the scientific facts I'm stating, of course everybody does not believe in science.

but don't' get mad at me for stating the facts that science provides. I'm not god, I didn't decide for water to dissipate heat better then air, thats just how things work.

If it was up to me, there would be no need for air or liquid, heat would just turn to cold on our CPU, if it was up to me

Edited by DST4ME - 20 May 2009 at 1:18am

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Axel Daemon View Drop Down
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Posts: 623 		  Quote Axel Daemon Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 1:54am
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54331

If only I could find the topic that stated otherwise.  It read that a properly configured liquid cooling system could last a year and even more when done right.  If there's kinks in the system it just means that you'll be doing maintenance on it more often.

Edit: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166524&highlight=maintenance

Or 3-6 months depending on the dust/animal conditions of your house.

Plus I believe DS uses oil for their liquid.  Not sure ahah.


Edited by Axel Daemon - 20 May 2009 at 1:56am
"People believe in people who believe in others."
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 4:17am
nobody needs to flush their liquid every 6 month, thats just over doing it IMO.

also the LC system DS is building is a pro job so kinks and etc are not going to exist.

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aaronevil View Drop Down
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Posts: 86 		  Quote aaronevil Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 4:22am
If only they made LC for my body Evil%20Smile
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Axel Daemon View Drop Down
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Posts: 623 		  Quote Axel Daemon Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 6:10am
Well 3-6 months would also refer to cleaning out the dust in a radiator since you have fans on it and all.

I would know I live in LA, next to a freeway.  Dust builds in a few months in the computer for me.  (Though was planning on investing in an air filtration system anyway)

Also by kinks I was thinking more of leaving air when trying to bleed the system (supposedly that's what the term is called right?  When you try to squeeze out all the air, cause if you leave any it affects the system)
"People believe in people who believe in others."
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justin.kerr View Drop Down
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 9:34am
Originally posted by harleyman

I know the difference between air and water thank you...
 
 
Why not just buy a system and see if it will come OCed to 4.5 on water then...
 
As it states...It regulates the heat...Does not say it lowers the heat, and it typically does not......  
 
 
I'm done....Go pawn that off on someone who will believe your stuff....
Hmm mine is over 4.5 Ghz, all 8 threads running, and will run prime for 24 hours in a warm room and load temps stay in the 60's. Do that with air?? Smile With  3 Gtx 275's  running  furmark stress test  for 1 hour never get above 44C, do that on air. Big%20smile
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Posts: 355 		  Quote Doc Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 9:58am

My LC rig just got here. How does one know when this maintanence is needed?  Having DS walk me through it has disaster written all over it!Big%20smile

The idea of sending it back across the country. 10 days to ship there, couple days of work, 10 days back is very unappealing.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 6:36pm
Doc you are making it a bigger deal then it actually is, the big project is flushing it once every 3 years.

the small projects that are supper easy to do is

liquid cooling maintenance:

check liquid levels once a month and add some to the reservoir if needed (this takes 1 minute)

cleaning your fans from dust, this should be done for all your fans and for your rad, you don't need to do anything the the LC system, you just unscrew the fans/rad from the top of the case, clean fans, screw back in.

yes AD its called bleeding but all of that is done for you by DS and as long as you don't open the rad or water block and etc, you won't get no air in the system, its airtight. cleaning the fans once every 3 go 6 month is a great idea but you don't need to do anything that will mess with the liquid and produce air in the system.

Edited by DST4ME - 20 May 2009 at 6:38pm

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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 11:04pm
Yes, there has been great advancements in air cooling, no doubt about it.  But a 3.6Ghz dual core compared to a 4.5 Ghz 8 thread CPU, is not very fair, the i7 is putting out 7 times the work. The best air cooler would be way over 100C if the chip did not throttle it back.
 If I turn off HT and downclock to 3.6 I can run Linx for 10 passes and stay in the 40's. with HT on and put it up to 3.8Ghz  I do get into the low 50's. but its 77F in my office.. so maybe a cooler day I could stay in the 40's.This is with 750 RPM silent fans also.
 
 


Edited by justin.kerr - 20 May 2009 at 11:16pm
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 May 2009 at 11:12pm
[QUOTE=harleyman
I find that hard to believe.......Confused 
 
...]@ 4.5Ghz decent temps, @ 4.6Ghz the heat just starts to get higher than heck, 4.7Ghz to high for my liking. lol
 
 


Edited by justin.kerr - 20 May 2009 at 11:15pm
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 May 2009 at 9:15am
thanks.
 
dumb question, but what do you mean by "bearing on TJ max at 4.5?" Tj max is automatically set to 100.?
 
You looking to get furmark? Or wanting a screen shot? LOL  You can download it here, along many other programs. lol  http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/latest-overclocking-programs-system-info-benchmarking-stability-tools-30530/
 
The 3.8 OC, I was helping out a person who is revising Intel burn test 2.1 beta so it can be used with i7's correctly, lol long story, but short story, it was just a "dummy" temp OC. Tongue
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Posts: 86 		  Quote aaronevil Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 May 2009 at 9:18am
I think that is what we call PWN'ed!
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Posts: 147 		  Quote Hammer Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 May 2009 at 12:32pm
Aaaaany who, not all LC options require maintenance. Coolit makes fully enclosed systems that never require topping off or flushing the system. But no system is fully maintenace free, EVERY system needs attention from time to time, even air. Dust builds up and you blow it out. Computers need to be cared for and cleaned all the time so getting a LC isn't going to change your situation all that much.
 
Liquid coolers 'typically' keep temperatures lower and more even than air. And also consider that the heat is being transported from the CPU to the Rad and out of the case, where as an air cooler just takes the heat from the CPU and tosses it into the case. Depending on all the variables involved, a LC can seriously help keep all the other components in your case, especially your GPU, cooler. I did say 'can', this is not something that happens or even matters to everyone.
 
'I' think the biggest difference is price and that's a budget issue. If you can afford it, do it...if not then don't worry about it to much and be happy with your air cooler.


Edited by Hammer - 21 May 2009 at 12:33pm
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 May 2009 at 4:12pm
coolit can't do what frostbite can do either. coolit and v8 and Noctua NH-U12P are pretty much the same performance, don't think because coolit got liquid, that means that its the same as other LC systems, its not.

Edited by DST4ME - 21 May 2009 at 4:13pm

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B5GkarNarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 170 		  Quote B5GkarNarn Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2009 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Hammer

Aaaaany who, not all LC options require maintenance. Coolit makes fully enclosed systems that never require topping off or flushing the system. But no system is fully maintenace free, EVERY system needs attention from time to time, even air. Dust builds up and you blow it out. Computers need to be cared for and cleaned all the time so getting a LC isn't going to change your situation all that much.
 
Liquid coolers 'typically' keep temperatures lower and more even than air. And also consider that the heat is being transported from the CPU to the Rad and out of the case, where as an air cooler just takes the heat from the CPU and tosses it into the case. Depending on all the variables involved, a LC can seriously help keep all the other components in your case, especially your GPU, cooler. I did say 'can', this is not something that happens or even matters to everyone.
 
'I' think the biggest difference is price and that's a budget issue. If you can afford it, do it...if not then don't worry about it to much and be happy with your air cooler.
 
Thanks for your reply, Hammer!   I currently have a non-gaming PC made by Dell and I have never cleaned out the fan or even opened the case to perform any maintenance during the 5 years that I've owned this system.  It still seems to run fine for me. 
 
I want to buy a gaming PC from DS in the autumn and my budget (including shipping & sales tax) is $3,000.  I'm willing to do some maintenance that requires opening the case - but only as long as DS tech support walks me through it.  I might just go with air cooling because I'm not sure if I need to have DS overclock my CPU.  I'm a noob to gaming on a PC.
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Posts: 24 		  Quote easytarget Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2009 at 2:51pm
this is a typical thread
 
OP asks a legit question about air vs water and just gets water as the answer
 
with the usual pack of o/c posers jumping on the water bandwagon
 
with the widely available info on this topic all over the net, anyone reading this thread or lurking should do themsleves a favor and check into the facts
 
the number one fact being cooling is not, will not, and has never been the limiting factor in o/c'ing most procs - the proc itself is the limiting factor
 
get informed, do your homework, and do not for a moment take the word of one guy
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Posts: 1826 		  Quote EdH63 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2009 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by easytarget

this is a typical thread
 
OP asks a legit question about air vs water and just gets water as the answer
 
with the usual pack of o/c posers jumping on the water bandwagon
 
with the widely available info on this topic all over the net, anyone reading this thread or lurking should do themsleves a favor and check into the facts
 
the number one fact being cooling is not, will not, and has never been the limiting factor in o/c'ing most procs - the proc itself is the limiting factor
 
get informed, do your homework, and do not for a moment take the word of one guy


I think that's a very rational statement.
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2009 at 4:11pm
Cooling is the #1 limiting factor on an i7 D0 stepping OC. My wifes i7 will run at 4.6Ghz stable, but can't because temps are to high, so she is limited to 4.4Ghz. My gaiming i7, I don't know how high it will go yet, lol 5.2Ghz 5.4Ghz? But  4.6Ghz is all I can to and stay within reason on temps. . My main I7, is a Co/C1 stepping, but still is heat limited on the OC.
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Posts: 1826 		  Quote EdH63 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2009 at 4:17pm
This is what my comment points to... "get informed, do your homework, and do not for a moment take the word of one guy".
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2009 at 4:47pm
I sure would like to see just one D0 overclock, with HT enabled, with good temps,  that was chip limited, that was not on a cascade,  ln2, or liquid helium. Just one.
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