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Need Advice from the Professionals

Post Date: 2008-02-21
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Slicer View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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Posts: 78 		  Quote Slicer Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Need Advice from the Professionals
    Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 4:39pm
So I've spent about 2 months, building, rebuilding and learning more about computer structure than I ever thought possible. 
 
Computer Use:  High End Gaming, FPS/MMORPG's (Battlefield2, WOW, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan type games)
 
Currently run an alienware that I customized back in 2003 (ran on AGP Motherboards Dead) with a 256MB Radeon card, playing WOW in 25 man raids like BT/Sunwell I get about 10-20 fps UGGGHH.
 
What I want is something more like 40-60 FPS and upwards for future gaming purposes and fluid motion on my screen since my latency is usually < 150ms.
 
Questions:
 
1.  Difference between the 680i Lt Core MB & the A1 Revision upgrade?  Is 780i MB worth the upgrade, advantage/disadvantage?
 
2.  Cooling solutions?  If I have DS overclock the memory, CPU and 2x Vid Cards do I need liquid or can I run Stage 3 cooling solution?
 
3.  Is the 750W PSU enough?
 
4.  Sound Card?  Is the Upgrade selected really that much of a boost over the standard on the MB?  Assuming I purchase a set of speakers in the $150 range like a logitech system.
 
5.  Question regarding screens, I have a Mitsubishi DiamondPoint 19" screen now, and typically run games in 1024 x 728?? format, I see alot of widescreen gaming options these days including 19" and 21" screens, would I need to do anything to run in higher resolutions?
 
DS attracted me as a potential client due to superior customer service, high quality systems at affordable prices and this community here which is a wealth of knowledge.  Hope to get some more from you folks here to finalize my build.
 
Copy of Specifications:
Case: Digital Storm 950Si (Black Anodized Aluminum Finish)
Power Supply: 750W Corsair HX (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz (1066MHz FSB) (8MB Cache)
Motherboard: nVidia 680i Core 2 Quad (By: eVGA) (nForce 680i SLI) (A1 Revision)
Memory: 2GB DDR2 Corsair at 1066MHz Dominator (Dual Channel) (Extreme-Performance)
Floppy / Card: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 1: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Hard Drive 2: - No Thanks
Raid Option: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 3: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-ROM/CD-ROM (DVD Reader 16x / CD Reader 40x)
Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Network Card: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (nVidia GeForce 8800GTS 512MB (By: eVGA) (PCI-Express)
TV Tuner: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer (Recommended)
Physics Card: - No Thanks
Cooling: Air Cooled Stage 3 WindTunnel (Copper Heatpipe Heatsink & Scythe Case Fans)
Case Lighting: Blizzard Internal Lighting (Green Edition) (Cold Cathode Tubes)
Round Cables: - No Thanks
User Manual: Personalized Platinum Digital Storm Binder (Includes Paperwork/Benchmarks/CDs/Manuals)
Overclock Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Overclock Video Card: Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability
Overclock Memory: Yes, Overclock the memory timings (Includes Corsair Dominator Airflow Fan)
Tweak Windows: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Pre-Install Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks my keyboard comes with a mouse
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty
Support: Lifetime Toll-Free Platinum Care Technical Support
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Bill the Cat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1150 		  Quote Bill the Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 9:16pm
 
"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."
 
Oh wait, you said "professionals". Never mind....
 
The 680i SLI A1 supports better overclocking that the LT. The 780i is more upgradable.
 
I wouldn't bother with the sound card.
 
Air cooling should be good enough, particularly with the TJ9 case.
 
The 750 W PSU is big enough.
 
Don't know about screens. I use a 21" CRT limited to 1600x1200
 
Finally, looking into the future, sunfighterLC will be correct.


Edited by Bill the Cat - 21 Feb 2008 at 9:30pm
3.6 GHz E6850,       4 GB RAM, GTS 250,   TJ9, Win 7 64-bit
4.4 GHz i7 3930K, 16 GB RAM, GTX 670, 550D, Win 7 64-bit
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EdH63 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1826 		  Quote EdH63 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 9:20pm
“Don’t worry about that mule gone blind just stand there and hold that tight line”!


Edited by EdH63 - 21 Feb 2008 at 9:21pm
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SunfighterLC View Drop Down
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Posts: 1527 		  Quote SunfighterLC Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 9:27pm
 The only advice i can say is youd be better off getting a single GFX card if you only plan to play in the rez you stated. SLI is more for people that play with very high rez. You wont see very much improvement in the 1024x xxx range.
 
Youd maybe be better off with a single GTX or Ultra KO edition for the money youre spending on gfx if you only stay at the rez youve been on.
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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 12:05am
Disclaimer: I am *not* a professional computer builder or consultant. I cut metal for a living.

If you can live with that...

Questions:
 
1.  Difference between the 680i Lt Core MB & the A1 Revision upgrade?

The LT board has fewer BIOS options than the A1. It is much easier to obtain an optimal overclock on the A1 revision board as a result. The A1 board also has better built in cooling of the SPP (Northbridge) chipset. This goes back once again to better overclocking results. There are some other, more minor differences, such as the built in LED POST indicator on the A1, but the main thing is overclocking potential.

Is 780i MB worth the upgrade, advantage/disadvantage?
 
I don't think this is worth it unless you really need the additional PCI slots. The 780i is more of a refresh of the 680i than a genuinely new product. IMO, if you want better support for the newest chipsets particularly the new Quads, either wait for the 790i or just go with an intel based board.

2.  Cooling solutions?  If I have DS overclock the memory, CPU and 2x Vid Cards do I need liquid or can I run Stage 3 cooling solution?

Liquid cooling is the way to go if you want everything clocked up to the max. You can go with air cooling though, just make sure you have selected a case that can handle it. The 850 or 950 cases preferably. Keep in mind that the final overclocks will not be as good in an air cooled sytem as they would be with liquid cooling.
 
3.  Is the 750W PSU enough?

Unless you think you might want to go with an SLi setup involving 2 9800x2's or an X-Fire X involving 2 HD3870x2's, a 750W PSU is more than enough. People tend to assume GPU's draw more power than they actually do, because they see reviews with power draws of 300W or more on a single card. What they may not realize, is these power figures are for the entire test system, not just the vidcard.
 
4.  Sound Card?  Is the Upgrade selected really that much of a boost over the standard on the MB?  Assuming I purchase a set of speakers in the $150 range like a logitech system.

An X-Fi will give you additional sound content. Regardless of whether or not you have studio quality speakers to listen to that content with, you will have access to additional game content that you otherwise would not. You will also gain some performance as the audio processor will free up CPU cycles. The less expensive sound card is not much of an advantage over onboard sound for most users.
 
5.  Question regarding screens, I have a Mitsubishi DiamondPoint 19" screen now, and typically run games in 1024 x 728?? format, I see alot of widescreen gaming options these days including 19" and 21" screens, would I need to do anything to run in higher resolutions?

If you want to run in higher than 1600x1200 resolutions, you will want to invest in SLi to avoid stuttering and slowdowns while gaming. Gaming at higher resolutions is exactly where multi-GPU setups truly shine. As far as the widescreen experience goes, I will defer to someone with more knowledge on that subject.


Edited by Tyler Lowe - 22 Feb 2008 at 12:07am
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Bill the Cat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1150 		  Quote Bill the Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Tyler Lowe

2.  Cooling solutions?  If I have DS overclock the memory, CPU and 2x Vid Cards do I need liquid or can I run Stage 3 cooling solution?

Liquid cooling is the way to go if you want everything clocked up to the max. You can go with air cooling though, just make sure you have selected a case that can handle it. The 850 or 950 cases preferably. Keep in mind that the final overclocks will not be as good in an air cooled sytem as they would be with liquid cooling.
 
 
I would agree with Tyler except, even with an air cooled system there is a possibility that you will reach your tolerance limit on voltage before you excede your temp limit. I did. If you don't need liquid cooling, it makes your system harder to work on for no benefit.


Edited by Bill the Cat - 22 Feb 2008 at 12:36pm
3.6 GHz E6850,       4 GB RAM, GTS 250,   TJ9, Win 7 64-bit
4.4 GHz i7 3930K, 16 GB RAM, GTX 670, 550D, Win 7 64-bit
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Posts: 78 		  Quote Slicer Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 11:06am
Thanks guys for the conversation, mind if I bug you 1 more time to perfect this setup?  I would like to game in higher resolutions and it seems that Widescreen is best for this instead of my current 19" DiamondPoint Screen which is 5 years old technology wise.
 
Could I get screen recommendations for a 19 or 21" Brand wise which are good?
 
Since I'm going higher resolution I added Liquid cooling to Vid & CPU so a question for ya:  How often do I need to change the liquid and how hard is it to do?  Does the liquid just evaporate over time and I refill it?  Is there a monitor to tell me when to refill or change out?
 
Also the 8800 GTS OC'd cards by the 3DMark06 scores shows the 320mb cards on dual as testing best, however it appears they no longer offer them so is the 512's the next best thing or the 640's?
 
Finally if I'm oc'ing the Quad do I need the 1066 Ram and if I do, do I need to OC the Ram or will there be little advantage say from the 800 Ram?
 
Finally Finally, you guys are costing me more money LOL but hey I want a screaming system.
 
Here is current config (still work in progress)
 
Case: Digital Storm 950Si (Black Anodized Aluminum Finish)
Power Supply: 750W Corsair HX (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz (1066MHz FSB) (8MB Cache)
Motherboard: nVidia 680i Core 2 Quad (By: eVGA) (nForce 680i SLI) (A1 Revision)
Memory: 2GB DDR2 Corsair at 1066MHz Dominator (Dual Channel) (Extreme-Performance)
Floppy / Card: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 1: 320GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Hard Drive 2: - No Thanks
Raid Option: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 3: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-ROM/CD-ROM (DVD Reader 16x / CD Reader 40x)
Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Network Card: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (nVidia GeForce 8800GTS 512MB (By: eVGA) (PCI-Express)
TV Tuner: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Motherboard Multi-Channel High Definition Audio
Physics Card: - No Thanks
Cooling: Liquid Chilled FrostBite CPU & Dual Video Cards (Artic Blue Liquid)
Case Lighting: Blizzard Internal Lighting (Red Edition) (Cold Cathode Tubes)
Round Cables: - No Thanks
User Manual: Personalized Platinum Digital Storm Binder (Includes Paperwork/Benchmarks/CDs/Manuals)
Overclock Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Overclock Video Card: Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability
Overclock Memory: Yes, Overclock the memory timings (Includes Corsair Dominator Airflow Fan)
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Pre-Install Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks my keyboard comes with a mouse
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty
Support: Lifetime Toll-Free Platinum Care Technical Support
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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 11:36am
Suggested changes to get more bang for your buck:

8800GTS ----> 8800GT : You're liquid cooling anyway, and overclocking the cards. The advantages of the 8800GTS are not many given your suggested configuration.

PC8500 RAM ----> PC6400 RAM. Stay with the Dominator, the improved heatsinks and RAM cooler in combination will help you get maximum performance. Faster than 800MHz rating on RAM are the same chips, the difference being a manufacturer's garantee the parts will run at higher speeds. Best bang for the buck is PC6400, especially if you can pay someone else to mess with the timings.

Liquid Chilled Frostbite ----> Dual loop liquid cooling.


With these changes, your price will be about the same as what you're looking at with the config you've listed.

The only other area you could look at, is the HDD. A seperate OS drive is a nice thing to have, and cheap.
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Bill the Cat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1150 		  Quote Bill the Cat Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by Slicer

Since I'm going higher resolution I added Liquid cooling to Vid & CPU so a question for ya:  How often do I need to change the liquid and how hard is it to do?  Does the liquid just evaporate over time and I refill it?  Is there a monitor to tell me when to refill or change out?
 
I've heard people have to top up their coolant reservoir every few (2 - 6) months. It does evaporate. I don't believe it ever needs to be changed unless you drain the system to work on it.
3.6 GHz E6850,       4 GB RAM, GTS 250,   TJ9, Win 7 64-bit
4.4 GHz i7 3930K, 16 GB RAM, GTX 670, 550D, Win 7 64-bit
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Posts: 78 		  Quote Slicer Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Tyler Lowe



Liquid Chilled Frostbite ----> Dual loop liquid cooling.

 
Can you explain the difference between the Liquid Chill for Chip + Vid Cards vs. the Dual Loop cooling feature.  There is about a $300 difference, yet it appears they accomplish the same thing or maybe the dual loop does it quicker??
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MarkNY View Drop Down
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Posts: 476 		  Quote MarkNY Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 4:36pm
I would go with dual loop if you are going to be cooling 2x video cards and your processor.  I have two OCed ultras and an OCed cpu all of which are liquid cooled and its not really strong enough.  The processors and graphics cards dump way too much heat into the system and the reservoirs and tubing get burning hot under full load. 

Edited by MarkNY - 22 Feb 2008 at 4:36pm
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