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Non-Gamer Advice Needed

Post Date: 2010-11-26
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Non-Gamer Advice Needed
    Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 9:48pm
I'm not a gamer but would like advice on a PC config. I'm coming to DS because of their great rep and the fact that I've seen too many negative reviews on the Name Brands with many comments on their poor relability.
 
I've got a $1500 budget; currently have a monitor (1024x768), keyboard/mouse and speakers. Primary use is web (investing, ebay buy/sell); also uSoft office apps with future need for photoshop and using PC as a music server. Other objectives are low noise, long term reliability (replacing a 8 yr old Gateway 2.5 GHz Pentium 4), fast boot-up (and not slowed by backgrnd security suite scans); future upgradability if I want to get more into gaming. Also want both separate DVD and bue-ray player as well as Windows 7.
 
Having said that, I've been considering an I7 cpu, 40-80GB SSD and 1 TBHD, 6G RAM, entry GPU, mid-tower size case (front air intake; rear with possible exhaust).
 
Would appreciate your recommendations; open to raising $1500 cap if provided good rationale.   Thanks in advance!
 
 
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maxyme View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 10:16pm
In a way i'm kinda here for the same reason. I'm sick of getting a crappy computer that lasts like a few years before breaking down and i want something to last.

Heres what i think would be a good build for you.
http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=462966
It has the cheapest gpu they offer which is mainly used for gaming so you will be fine with the cheapest one. The haf 922 which has high air flow and is pretty quiet.
To get the 40gb ssd in you will go $34 over which isn't too bad.
With a ssd you can boot in about 15 seconds which will be awesome.
With blu ray you need to decide to go for the blu ray player or ssd. Also you will need a hdcp certified monitor to play blu ray movies. Plus blu ray is in 1080p so you need a resolution of 1080x1920 to take advantage of that. Normal dvds will be fine for your resolution.
Also the config i have made has a great cpu cooler so you can get close to the maximum free overclock which will help you a lot performance wise.

Oh also the really nice thing about DS cases is that they all are really easy to open up and change things around. So it wouldn't be hard to add in any single gpu.
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 10:39pm
Thanks for the feedback! A few questions:
 
1) What's the limiter on getting both the SSD and blue-ray?
2) What's the difference between your recommended air cooler and the Stage 1 High Performance Cooler that is $56 less - fewer fans and less noise? I do want the right balance between low noise and effective cooling.
3) Does your recommended MB have upgradeability or should I step up another level?
 
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!ender_ View Drop Down
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Posts: 4219 		  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 10:42pm
yea, tough to advise for a non gamer becuase really even the cheapest thing here would be insane overkill for you, if absolute quiet is what you are after, you may need to replace the fans in any case you choose, stock fans are built cheap and can be controlled to an extent, but for real silence you need money
 
maxy's build is pretty close but you can drop the psu to 500w and beware that the standard for "mid size" cases is pretty huge.. if you are using a computer thats 8 years old, it will probably fit inside most cases these days
 
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!ender_ View Drop Down
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Posts: 4219 		  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 10:44pm
1) budget.
 
2) $56 less, less cooling power, less quiet
 
3) that mobo is insane overkill for your use, anything x58 is, but pretty much anything on the site is... so its relative. no benefit to spending more in this dept
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maxyme View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 10:52pm
to expand on #2 the noctua fan has very good performance and is also very quiet. And what i chose all could be used for upgrading to the top of the line graphics card if you wanted to do some gaming.
oh and !ender could the cheapest gpu here game in a very low resolution decently? because looking at what dryheatguys needs i'm kinda thinking of going for cpu power>gpu to do rendering ect and use that to make more money then upgrade to a 580 when i have $500 to spare.
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 11:32pm
Thanks maxy and !ender for the advice. More cooling questions (WAF driven; my careabout is to be able to place router on front top of case if possible). With the noctua dual fans in the 922, is the resulting config 1 intake and 2 (or 3?) exhaust fans and can fan location be specified for the build config? Is the 690 II a case I should consider?
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maxyme View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Nov 2010 at 11:51pm
Well the cpu cooler doesn't really change the airflow. heres a little diagram of the cooling:
As you can see it takes air in from the front and uses the top and back as exhaust.
the haf 922 has a area in the front where there are some controls and the power button and then a fan so it might be able to fit there.

heres a picture of the top

Oh the case also has a side panel fan.
For your question about fan placement, I don't think there is any other place to put the fans.

for the 690 II advanced its a decent case but has far worse cooling than the haf 922 or any haf cases. The haf cases are well known for having one of if not the best cooling and are also very upgradable.

Edited by maxyme - 26 Nov 2010 at 11:52pm
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 12:05am
Thanks much for the advice - I'm smarter/more dangerous now. Happy Holidays!
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maxyme View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 1:38am
No problem
Happy Holidays to you too. guess we can't say thanksgiving anymore haha
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!ender_ View Drop Down
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Posts: 4219 		  Quote !ender_ Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by maxyme

!ender could the cheapest gpu here game in a very low resolution decently?
depends on a lot of things but a 460 should hold you pretty well if you dont mind lowering some options... much lower than that, and your could have some compatibility problems with newer games
 
 
as far as the router on top of your PC, shouldnt make much difference
i wouldnt, but it shouldnt matter too much
just makes sure the back and top of the case have plenty of room to push hot air out, that matters most
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Pilgrim View Drop Down
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Posts: 163 		  Quote Pilgrim Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 6:20pm
to upgrade to a 580 you will need a bigger power supply than 500w
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 6:41pm

I was planning on keeping the 750W for upgradeability. Question on overclocking the CPU. What determines where in the (3.3 to 3.9 GHz) range that DS will set the overclock? Given that I want long term reliability, should I skip the overclock? What do I give up in performance vs. gain in longevity?
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MagiK View Drop Down
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Posts: 1074 		  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 8:48pm
The OC reached depends on the particular chip, each piece of silicon has unique physical characteristics.

Absolutely no reason to skip the OverClock.and many reasons why you should take it  Smile


Edited by MagiK - 27 Nov 2010 at 8:49pm
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ablahblah View Drop Down
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Posts: 2312 		  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 9:59pm
The overclock depends on the limits of your hardware, which are pretty much set by how beefy of a cooler you've got and your luck with the chip you get also plays a part.

A good noctua cooler as I've seen can typically hit at least a 3.6Ghz overclock.

Stability while it's on should be guaranteed for at least 24 hours I guess, I'm not sure exactly how long DS will stress the CPU (not completely sure whether they Prime95 for 72-hr or if it's simply a component of the 72-hr burn in test). Anyways, the length of time that they will stress the CPU to its limits will give you your guaranteed stable time, which is usually much more than you're going to be using it anyways.

For whether you should opt for it or not, hey, it's a free guaranteed 20% or more CPU speed boost. Why not?Hahaha


Edited by ablahblah - 27 Nov 2010 at 10:03pm
R4D4RPR00F
Core i7 920 @ 3.9Ghz
Asus Sabertooth X58
EVGA GTX 570
Mushkin 6GB 1414Mhz
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:09pm
Thanks for the insights. Agree that a free overclock is hard to pass up, but if it were to cut the useful life from notionally 8 years to 4, without getting some (non-gaming) performance benefit; I would choose the extra life.
 
Any thoughts?
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maxyme View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:18pm
the overclock DS puts on the chips for free is a mild overclock. One of the forum users justin says that the chips with a mild overclock and a good cooler can last over 15 years. the noctua fans are really good. The thing with the overclock is that it doesn't really affect the chip much in terms of longevity as long as its still well cooled.
And things that affect the OC is mainly the cooler then slightly the ripple size from the psu and slightly that every chip is different.
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MagiK View Drop Down
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Posts: 1074 		  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:21pm
Ultimately the OC is not just based on the cooling, cooling will allow you to get the best from your slab of silicon but if you take 2 of the same model chips with the same coolers you are NOT gaurenteed to get identical clock rates out of them.....but yeah your Motherboard also plays a role too.

For example, I managed to get a stable build with my Intel Q6600 CPU running at 3.2Ghz (stock speed is 2.4) on air.  My wife with identical components was only ever able to get up to 3.0Ghz.  But there are manufacturing variables in all components so read everyones input and realize its all a component of a complex system.


Edited by MagiK - 27 Nov 2010 at 10:24pm
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Dryheatguy View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Dryheatguy Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:49pm
Thanks to all for the advice! As for the overclock, understand that heats kills, not speed.
I'll let you know the results after I take the plunge.
 
Cheers!
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maxyme View Drop Down
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Posts: 1514 		  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Nov 2010 at 10:53pm
ok good luck!
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justin.kerr View Drop Down
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2010 at 10:28am
Originally posted by MagiK

Ultimately the OC is not just based on the cooling, cooling will allow you to get the best from your slab of silicon but if you take 2 of the same model chips with the same coolers you are NOT gaurenteed to get identical clock rates out of them.....but yeah your Motherboard also plays a role too.

For example, I managed to get a stable build with my Intel Q6600 CPU running at 3.2Ghz (stock speed is 2.4) on air.  My wife with identical components was only ever able to get up to 3.0Ghz.  But there are manufacturing variables in all components so read everyones input and realize its all a component of a complex system.
Cooling is usually the largest factor in OC potential, with the 1366 sockets. Next up is usually the  the goofball trying to overclcok things, followed by the CPU itself, the motherboard. all the 1366 CPUs will do 4.2+Ghz 24/7 stable with enough cooling and  a good motherboard, and zero coolermaster parts..
Bet I could get 3.6+Ghz 24/7 stable on both those Q6600's Big%20Smile
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MagiK View Drop Down
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Posts: 1074 		  Quote MagiK Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Nov 2010 at 11:30am
Justin  You would be welcome to try but the Step 0 chip seems to be really picky, all the groups I was working with had mixed results most couldn't get to 3.4  I got to 3.4 but it was only stable for a few hours before BSOD took me down.  At 3.2 I can run all day with no problems.  I will say that yeah the skill of the person doing the OC is also a big factor.
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