Nvidia absolutely shredded over 4070ti launch!Post Date: 2023-01-04 |
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db188 ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 04 Jan 2023 at 12:39pm |
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for those that don't rem/or were unaware Nvidia tried to originally pre launch this card as a "4080 12GB" sku at $900. they then did an "unlaunch" after pushback and have rebranded it as the "4070ti" while dropping the price $100. beyond power improvements, this card has no better performance than a 3080. GamersNexus shreds them in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-FMPbm5CNM buyer beware!
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MrCheetah ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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As much as I respect GN and do agree these companies have interpreted pandemic pricing to be presumably persistent -- which, of course, it is not -- value is, indeed, subjective.
For example, similar to Jay, I think, if you see the 4070 Ti as performing around a 3090 but at $799 (or somewhat thereabouts), it's not a horrible value comparatively. JayzTwoCents RTX 4070 Ti Review |
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db188 ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
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Hardware Unboxed had a similar assessment. while the card is good, the price sux. you're paying 80 series prices for 70 series cards. and for a $100 more you can get a 7900XTX. besides, we have yet to see what the retail prices for the 4070ti will be. it could be as much as $900, which should be a "no buy" for anyone looking for "value". oh, and Jay is an Nvidia and Corsair shill;P
Edited by db188 - 04 Jan 2023 at 9:47pm |
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MrCheetah ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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Whether he is or isn't is irrelevant. While I am disgusted, frustrated, and more about the distancing of wealth/income vs. expenses (for the most of us), I still recognize reality.
I'll be blunt. I am exhausted of this argument. "I remember when gas was thirty cents." "When I was a kid, you could get a soda for a nickel." With capitalism and most other societies, those prices will never happen again. Furthermore, "inflation" is practically a buzz word. Anyway... back to the root subject... I mostly agree with Steve's (GN) sentiments: the 4070 Ti is not a good value and represents stagnant progress -- an oxymoron though I am not sure how else to describe it. In other words, this generation's 70 tier is around previous 80 tier pricing but has about 80 tier (sometimes 90 tier) performance. So, not an improved value, but also not a loss in value. However, a lower cost (i.e., about half the price).
Source: RTX 4080 16GB GPU Review & Benchmarks | Gamers Nexus (YouTube) A third way to describe it, for example: A gamer misses/skips the RTX 3090 for $1,499. Eventually, the MSRP falls to $999. Now, the gamer can get a GPU generally comparable to the 3090 (though we can say 3080 Ti) for $799. Ultimately, is it a situation to be reasonably upset about? Yes, but it's also not "the sky is falling!" P.S. As much as they have valid points, content creators/influencers/YouTubers thrive on drama and the hate train is the easiest to board. P.P.S. For me, the typical lifespan of a product is 5 - 10 years (e.g., finally purchased an Xbox Series X for Christmas to replace a first generation Xbox One, use an iPhone X with the mentality of possibly replacing it with an iPhone XV/15) despite often ogling at the latest and greatest products. Edited by MrCheetah - 05 Jan 2023 at 8:15am |
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• Ryzen 5600X, ROG Strix B550-I, RX 6900 XT, 32GB Vengeance, 960GB MP510
• be quiet 500DX, i7 11700K, ROG Strix Z590-E, RTX 4080 ProArt + RTX 4070 Ti ProArt, 64GB HyperX Fury, 2TB SN850 |
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fwfdfireman ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Aug 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 409 |
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I watched JayZTwoCents video on the 4070. I think his big picture he was trying to get across with the 4070 as an example, is that the GPU pricing scenario has gotten out of hand and the pricing makes no sense anymore. At least that is what I took away from the whole thing.
I have to agree with him on that aspect. I might have one more custom PC build in a few years, but after that, I think prices will be so high that I will be forced to switch to console gaming. |
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Old Gamers Never Die!
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MrCheetah ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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Yeah. Basically, across the board. Therefore, influencers are ranting about every card and almost every component. So, it's not really the component, but as you say @fwfdfireman, the enthusiastic (gamer) market is overall a horrible value now. Edited by MrCheetah - 05 Jan 2023 at 11:54am |
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• Ryzen 5600X, ROG Strix B550-I, RX 6900 XT, 32GB Vengeance, 960GB MP510
• be quiet 500DX, i7 11700K, ROG Strix Z590-E, RTX 4080 ProArt + RTX 4070 Ti ProArt, 64GB HyperX Fury, 2TB SN850 |
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db188 ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
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"drama", "hate train", or "investigative tech journalism" looking out for consumers. the fact is that Nvidia tried to pull a fast one, got caught, and has now tried to rebrand/relabel/relaunch a piece of tech, that while good in and of itself, just isn't priced right and only exacerbates the problem of "meh" with most of this new line of video cards. despite its share of problems, the 4090 at least gives you what it promised-apex level performance, albeit at a prohibitive (for most) price point, thus making it a "niche" product. AMD isn't w/o fault either with its over the top marketing shenanigans as well. they've also failed to execute on the opportunities their competition has provided them with. their attitude about pricing seems to be a "me too" one. bottom line, there's far too much greed and lying in this industry. seems par for the coarse with everything these days. guess that's just the "new normal".
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db188 ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
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MrCheetah ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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Agreed. Basically, I prefer/try to see the 'glass half-full' whenever plausible. |
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hoserator ![]() DS Veteran ![]() We don't need no stinking "Avatars" ! ![]() Joined: 08 Oct 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7966 |
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We are beginning to see what EVGA considered before leaving the gpu market. It is a mess. AMD also is having its share of issues with its top gpu. I was leery of what was coming and went with the 3090Ti KP and will wait for the next gpu generation. Try order a Galax 4090 HOF. And the Galax 4090Ti is already rumored to be around the $2K mark. They are niche products for 4K monitor gamers as db188 posted.
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db188 ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
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for anyone following this discussion and thinking about either a new build or upgrading, i think as a helpful guideline for recommended price-to-performance ("value") and matching needs for which resolution you'll be gaming at, i think this is a good guide (i'm including DXR performance in the evaluation): for 1080p > RTX 3060ti LHR 8GB can be had around $400-$420 depending on vendor for 1440p (2K) aka entry level "high end" > RX 6800 16GB (~$520 on Newegg is the lowest i've found) easily handles this resolution. it also has lower power req's than a 3080, so you can save on your PSU purchase as well. RT is mediocre though. the last gen's best overall here is the RTX 3080 (10 or 12 GB model). i got mine for $700, but i see the prices have gone back up (~$900 for a 10GB model right now). if you want the RT this is the card i'd suggest, but not at that price. and now there are RTX 4070ti 12GB available for $840 (Newegg MSI Ventus 3X OC). also, the RX 7900XT 20GB ($880) on Best Buy/Newegg. 4K > the undisputed performance king is the prohibitively priced RTX 4090 24GB (FE on Amazon for $2,227). i wouldn't recommend ANY card w/o a minimum of 16GB vram in any case (even with up-scaling). the only other true competitors in this class are the RTX 4080 16GB (~$1,445) and RX 7900XTX 24GB (~$1,290), which really only compete with each other (and not with the 4090). RT and up-scaling performance might be less of an issue going forward, so a 7900XTX should/could be the clear "value" pick, especially with price drops. i also think with better QC the thermal issues with the 7900XTX vapor chamber cooler will all but disappear. vendor partners custom cards don't have the problem. mature drivers should also increase performance some. the true 4080 card is just completely priced wrong. they both are really, but at least AMD's is $200 less! i personally just bit the bullet and went with the apex 4090. i feel anyone gaming in this class isn't a "budget gamer" anyway, so spend away!
Edited by db188 - 06 Jan 2023 at 12:04pm |
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Cretae ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Mar 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 7331 |
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Good analysis.
My mind boggles at the premium 4K requires and has required all along. I might be doing it wrong, but when I game, I rarely sit back to admire the pretty pictures. My attention is on the events unfolding, the mind games and/or action scenes coming at me. I have been gaming from the earliest representaions in gigantic pixels all the way up to the near photo-realism we have today. Maybe I'm just so satisfied with how realistic everything appears in light of how long that journey has been, that I just don't think more is really...more. I can't justify the expense of hacking out an even smaller pixel at a framerate very few can detect without a side-by-side. db's final sentence is the only thing that makes sense of it to me. "...so spend away!" ![]() |
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fwfdfireman ![]() Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Aug 2020 Online Status: Offline Posts: 409 |
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What you said above Cretae, and to be honest and I will admit, I only base my conclusion on the difference I see in UHD and 4K on my 4K tv. Whether that difference is the same in the PC world, I am not willing to spend all the extra money to find out. 1440p is where I stay.
Heck, I remember titles in 1080p long ago that I thought looked spectacular! I did see an improvement going from 1080 to 1440, but it didn't cost an arm and a leg and your first born to get there! The prices these companies are charging are going to force more and more PC gamers to spec. cheaper or just leave this mess all together. |
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Old Gamers Never Die!
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Tidgxor ![]() DS ELITE ![]() The Kokopelli kid ![]() Joined: 17 Sep 2010 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13000 |
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I'll still quite happy at 1080p. Am I able to tell a difference on higher resolutions? Yes but with rapidly diminishing returns. In fact the returns diminish so quickly (for me) that when you factor in the inverse price increase it makes me even more happy at 1080p. Is my mindset for everyone? Absolutely not. But there's also no wrong answer here and my wallet does enjoy the extra money I save. In a lot of ways I'm getting priced out of the hardware market due to stubbornness if not actual lack of funds. But by golly it's my lawn and Nvidia can get off it.
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db188 ![]() DS Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jul 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2115 |
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it's too bad DS doesn't want to offer more AMD based products in their builds. i just priced out a 1080p (ultra)/1440p capable build on PCPartPicker for under $1,700. a comparable build with DS is over $2,300. the system is based on Ryzen 5 7600X, B650M mobo, G.Skill Trident Z 32GB DDR5-6000, Radeon 6700XT gpu, A440 Pro 2TB NVMe system drive, EVGA 750W 80+Gold psu, in a Lian Li 011-D ATX case with Windows 11 home OS. that's a pretty respectable cost outlay for a DIY build for mid-tier performance.
Edited by db188 - 09 Jan 2023 at 1:58pm |
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