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Processor comparo

Post Date: 2008-10-06
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Mezzeron View Drop Down
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Posts: 212 		  Quote Mezzeron Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Processor comparo
    Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 10:47am
OK, may seem like a newb question, but im sure im not the only one who wants to know this.  First off, im not much of an oc'er and don't feel comfy doing it myself.  But....
 
q9650
qx6850
qx9650
 
The latter 2 are xtreme CPU, but all three have the same speed 3mhz, same FSB 1333, same cache 12.....so why is there such a large difference in price?
 
Is it because of the potential for greater OC speeds?  Do the extreme CPU's in general OC higher?
 
Sure, ive built my own computers before, i usually pick the best processor I can afford, i never choose based off OC performance cause I have always been leary of blowin my sh*t up.  But since ill be buying this time around, ill have DS OC it, so want to be a little more educated in terms of CPU choice.
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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 11:21am
The marchitecture in the Penryn chips is better than the Kentsfield, and there has also been a die shrink. So, clock for clock, a Yorkfield will be faster, and will require less volts to run (meaning it will run cooler at the same speeds allowing for higher overclocks). If you are not going to go for a QX9770, I would suggest simply grabbing the Q9650. It has a 9x multiplier, much like the economy overclocking champ (Q6600) but with the 45nm technology Yorkfield brought to the table.
 
As for the difference in price, you're looking at two different generations of chips. The QX6850 is a Kentsfield series CPU based on 65nm technology, and is an extreme series, meaning it has an unlocked multiplier. A year ago, that chip would have run you what a QX9770 does now.
 
Do extreme chips generally OC higher? Sometimes. I hate to be ambiguous on that answer, but it isn't that cut and dried. Extreme chips allow for greater freedom in selecting a FSB to achieve a specific clock, so they have a better chance at higher clocks, but overclocking is a black art. It is not always as simply as plug chip "a" into motherboard "b" with RAM "c" to get clock "d". You just have to take your chances with it, and select as many things as your budget allows to get the best chance at a good result. More often than not, you are rewarded for "stacking the deck in your favor" by selecting the fastest RAM, best cooling, most stable power supply, most stable motherboard, etc. Nothing is ever garanteed however. Some Kentsfield quads will run stable at 4GHz on air while some Yorkfield CPU's can barely make it over stock. It's luck of the draw, and the only garanteed speed is stock speed.
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Mezzeron View Drop Down
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Posts: 212 		  Quote Mezzeron Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 11:41am
Well, that does help..some :)
 
I can get the 3.2 extreme, not really limited as far as cost.  But, since im getting it totally painted in and out (vanity reasons), figured i might be able to offset the cost with a lower price if the OC would at least make up for it.  But for the price, seems the on sale QX6850 would be an excellent buy. 
 
Also, and unrelated....this was origianally goint to be my personal gaming powerhouse, but i got the wife a new camcorder, and she want to experiment with "making movies."  have a 2 year old and she wants to document his every waking moment it seems.  (should have just got a better still camera for her:P)
 
Should I up to 8gig of ram instead of 4?  And if so, i might just update the one Ive built so i wont have to share
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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 12:17pm

I'd still suggest a newer non extreme chip over an older extreme model. When I say "clock for clock a Yorkfield will be faster" I mean the Q9650 at 3.6GHz is fastr than a QX6850 at 3.6GHz. Considering the die shrink which greatly reduced operating temperatures, the Q9650 is also likely to clock much higher than a QX6850. Remember, this is not a straight comparison in the way comparing a QX9650 to a Q9650 would be. The chips are from different generations. In this case, the cheaper chip is simply better all around. I can't think of even one good reason to recommend the QX6850 over the Q9650, unless you're stuck with an older Nvidia motherboard that can't support the Q9650.

When it comes to 8GB of RAM, my feeling is it is not worth the additional load on your memory controller unless you really need the extra memory (think moving lots of extremely large files or video editing or running 3 fairly taxing programs at the same time that would all demand 2GB of RAM). More RAM installed on more DIMMS makes it harder to run a FSB stable at high speeds, which means you're hurting your chances at a good overclock. 4GB is more than enough for almost anything an average user will ever do with their computer. Many are still running 32 bit, which means a max of 2.5 to 3GB in Vista.
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Posts: 476 		  Quote MarkNY Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 2:05pm
As the owner of a QX6850, which I purchased last December, I would defintily recommend going with the Q9650, QX9650 or higher.  The QX6850 is an extremely hot chip, which really hurts its ability to OC.  Addititionally, while everyone has different results overclocking, I can't get my QX6850 above 3.6ghz and if I even push the FSB above 1333, it becomes unstable.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 2:34pm
wait for the new chip to come out so it drops the prices and go with 4GB of ram

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Mezzeron View Drop Down
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Posts: 212 		  Quote Mezzeron Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 11:07pm
Thanks for all that guys, looks like i will be able to save some money after all.   Unless, like DST, I wait a little longer and go with the new generation chip.
 
Not sure if i will or not, seeing as im still about 6 months aty the earliest at buying.  At least there will be alot of feedback by then on the new stuff, as well as dropped prices on the current chips.
 
Will wait and see.....
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gamerk2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 198 		  Quote gamerk2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 11:02am
You really don't need an Extreme edition chip unless you plan for a heavy OC.
 
One of the normal 9xxx chips should be fine.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Mezzeron

Thanks for all that guys, looks like i will be able to save some money after all.   Unless, like DST, I wait a little longer and go with the new generation chip.
 

Not sure if i will or not, seeing as im still about 6 months aty the earliest at buying.  At least there will be alot of feedback by then on the new stuff, as well as dropped prices on the current chips.

 

Will wait and see.....


6 month? I'm making a bet that you will get the new chip

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SunfighterLC View Drop Down
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Posts: 1527 		  Quote SunfighterLC Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 5:54pm
If you using this computer only for gaming, then your wait will be useless. Most games can bearly even use 2 cores let alone 4...and this new chip will have 4 + virtual 4 making 8 technically...so youll 2 working cores and 6 almost idle cores......thats useful....
 
The quad cores barely have enough excuse to be bought..how are they gonna explain this new one? Other then you gotta have a big peen...get more cores!! They dont do anything yet..but get more anyways!!
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Oct 2008 at 6:16pm
well this one is a true quadcore for one.

second waiting to see if he wants to get the new chip but even if he does not the current prices will drop so I don't see how waiting is pointless for gamers.

in 6 month nobody will be buying the current penryn, very few people will.

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gamerk2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 198 		  Quote gamerk2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 8:28am
Not for me, i7, counting the CPU, Mobo, and DDR3 RAM, will cost around $1000 or so.  For a 10% increase?  No thank you.
 
A Q9550 or Q9650 is plenty for the next 3-5 years or so.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Oct 2008 at 4:19pm
If I may ask what tests did you do that you came to the 10% conclusion? and where did you find the actual usa costs from?

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gamerk2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 198 		  Quote gamerk2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 13 Oct 2008 at 2:06pm
Converted from the Canadian prices that were released last week.  About $299 for the midrange i7, ~$350 for the X58, plus the cost of 2GB+ DDR3 RAM.
 
As for the 10%, early benchmarks showed little to no improvement in non-core optimized games, usually less than 10%.  While this could improve a bit, I doubt 8 core games will become standard within the next 4 years (i7's lifespan), so a decently clocked Quad should be just as effective and a heck of a lot cheaper. 
 
Besides, as long as the GPU can be fed, the GPU affects FPS a lot more than the CPU can.
 
 
I support getting Quads, as the LGA 775 socket is going EOL with i7's release.  That being said, a good Quad setup will be plently for at least the next 4-5 years or so.  With so much being GPU bound, a Quad is overkill as it is.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 13 Oct 2008 at 2:12pm
well thats the problem, the conversion is not the price, I have posted the price for the x58, its actually suppose to be cheaper then the x48, and looks like the chip itself is gonna be the same cost and in some cases even lower price in USA.

check the news section I have posted a bunch on this subject with actual USA prices.

also the 10% is just a theory just like the price.

I got apps that dual core can't handle like a quad can, how can you say its overkill? most people do more then only play games on their PCs.

Lets wait and see what it actually does when it comes out on its own board, with its own ram and etc, then lets see what the performance difference really is, maybe its more, maybe its less, we don't know, all I'm saying is that lets not say we know something, we don't know.

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