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Question About Adding RAM

Post Date: 2008-07-30
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Razor7 View Drop Down
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Posts: 35 		  Quote Razor7 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Question About Adding RAM
    Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 11:27am
Nuke Hello--
 
My rig has an XFX nForce 780i SLI mobo and is running Windows XP Pro (32-bit). I originally wanted 4 GB of RAM, but I was informed it might cause problems with that OS, and changed to 2 GB of RAM.
 
I now know that Windows XP 32- bit can only utilize 3.5 GB RAM max, so I wondered if I can add another GB of RAM to my system, bringing it to 3 GB total? I ask becuase of symetry of RAM might prevent that ability.
 
I also have a dual boot with Vista Business, also 32-bit.
 
Thanks,
 
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Tyler Lowe View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 11:38am
You can either install 2x512MB stick, or just install a 2x2GB kit and let the rest go unaddressed. My personal preference is towards the 2x2GB RAM kits. They are inexpensive and require less overhead than populating 4 DIMMs.

Edited by Tyler Lowe - 30 Jul 2008 at 11:53am
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Kliebor2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 12:34pm
Also the addressable RAM is not that simple.

It depends on your other devices. If you have a 512 Meg Video Card and some other device (LAN card, or anything else with adressable memory (Sound Card) whatever the total of that memory is, plus a little overhead for Windows comes off the top of the 4 GB maximum that a 32 bit operating system can address.

So say you have 1 Gigabyte total other addressable memory devices between sound, video, etc then you can only have a maximum of 3 Gigabytes addressable system memory.

Dave


Edited by Kliebor2 - 30 Jul 2008 at 12:34pm
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Posts: 289 		  Quote TomD Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 1:40pm
I was thinking of doing the same thing, but have been told that the extra RAM can actually hurt performance vs. 2GB.
 
Are there any downsides to having 4GB in a system with a 32-bit operating system, other then the fact that you can't address the full amount?
 
Any issues with overclocking? (I don't plan to OC my RAM, but still curious).
 
Thanks!
 
Tom
 
 
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Razor7 View Drop Down
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Posts: 35 		  Quote Razor7 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by TomD

I was thinking of doing the same thing, but have been told that the extra RAM can actually hurt performance vs. 2GB.
 
Are there any downsides to having 4GB in a system with a 32-bit operating system, other then the fact that you can't address the full amount?
 
Any issues with overclocking? (I don't plan to OC my RAM, but still curious).
 
Thanks!
 
Tom
 
 
I actually had ordered a rig from Vigor Gaming with 4 GB of RAM and a 32-bit OS. It had nothing but problems--crash, Crash, CRASH! I ended up returning it (there's a lot more to the story) and going with DS. When they went over my original config with 4 GBs of RAM, they said it might cause problems--that's why I don't just slap another Gig stick in there.
 
But I went down from 4 GBs to 2 GBs and would like to know if my mobo will perform normally with 3x1GB sticks?
 
BTW, the two that are in there are Corsair Dominator 1066.
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 3:30pm
DDR do not go with 3 sticks... DDR (Double Data Rate) memory only works as advertised if you have pairs of matched sticks

If you are worried about going over the 3 Gigabyte mark, all I can say is stick with your 2x 1 GB and add 2x 512 Meg to get 3 Gigabytes with matched sticks.

Dave


Edited by Kliebor2 - 30 Jul 2008 at 3:31pm
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Posts: 840 		  Quote widdlecat Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by Kliebor2

DDR do not go with 3 sticks... DDR (Double Data Rate) memory only works as advertised if you have pairs of matched sticks

If you are worried about going over the 3 Gigabyte mark, all I can say is stick with your 2x 1 GB and add 2x 512 Meg to get 3 Gigabytes with matched sticks.

Dave


You've got the right idea there dave, but mixed up the terminology. DDR is different from dual channel. Some earlier mobos used DDR memory but not dual channel.
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Posts: 289 		  Quote TomD Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 5:03pm
RE:
 
"If you are worried about going over the 3 Gigabyte mark, all I can say is stick with your 2x 1 GB and add 2x 512 Meg to get 3 Gigabytes with matched sticks."
 
Browing NewEgg, they don't even sell 512 sticks for DDR3 RAM. So basically this doesn't seem to be an option for those of us with DDR3 only boards.
 
So I guess I am still curious - are there known problems with 4GB? I want to make sure I don't spend money on a downgrade.
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 5:09pm
I have an xp with 4GB of ram, there is no down side, and your system will use all 4 ;)

Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 6:40pm
Unless your video card has no memory onboard and you have the magical no overhead version of XP you do not have a full 4 GB of Ram on Windows XP 32 Bit

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Posts: 35 		  Quote Razor7 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jul 2008 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Kliebor2

DDR do not go with 3 sticks... DDR (Double Data Rate) memory only works as advertised if you have pairs of matched sticks

If you are worried about going over the 3 Gigabyte mark, all I can say is stick with your 2x 1 GB and add 2x 512 Meg to get 3 Gigabytes with matched sticks.

Dave
That's what I needed to know. That's why they made it 2 GB from 4.
 
Many thanks!Thumbs%20Up
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Posts: 287 		  Quote Rolet Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 1:38am
I have 4g ram on 32bit vista and my system is very stable, and has good OC. 
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 7:10am
4 Gigs installed perhaps, but not available for use.

I ran XP 32 with 4 gigs installed in fact the system is my last computer now used by my kids a dual core at 2.1 Ghz with 4 gig of memory installed and a 256 Meg 8600 GTS Video card and a few other bells and whistles, Its available memory for applications is 3.5 Gig.

Why you ask, because like every other 32 bit system out there it is limited to 4 Gigabytes of addressable memory and that includes windows overhead and video memory and any other memory used by system controllers, network functionality etc.

Dave
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Kliebor2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 10:03am
Heya Harley!

I just want one of these magical 32 bit systems with a 48 bit memory table that all these other people seem to have :)

It would make the 32 bit 64 bit question much easier to answer :)

Dave...

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Edited by Kliebor2 - 31 Jul 2008 at 10:03am
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Kliebor2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 10:48am
Harley,

and everyone else, this is a little more layman oriented but it describes the way windows memory management works.

http://www.brianmadden.com/content/article/The-4GB-Windows-Memory-Limit-What-does-it-really-mean-

I hope this can help make this a little clearer than mud :)

Dave Shocked
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Posts: 289 		  Quote TomD Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 11:25am
So to summarize what I think what all that means is....
 
1) 4GB RAM in a 32-bit operating system, you will get usable memory somewhere between 3GB-4GB in most systems. If you have dual 280gx's or some other memory hog PCI cards you may get less then 3GB.
 
2) There are no problems in doing this, you will still maintain all the performance you had at 2GB plus some added benefit of the extra RAM. No impact on OC etc although it may take some tweaking with different RAM. Benchmark scores will remain roughly the same as they don't need the extra memory to run.
 
3) There is benefit to adding the RAM when you have multiple applications running OR you have a rare application that will actually utilize more than 2GB RAM.
 
4) 2GB x 2 sticks is the preferable configuration. An alternative is 4GBx1 or 1GBx2 and 512x2. Do not run in a 1GB x 3 config as you will take a big performance hit by losing the dual channel capability.
 
I won't get into the 64-bit vs. 32-bit debate as that is another topic entirely. Focusing here on 32-bit systems only here.
 
Please disagree if any of the above statements are incorrect. I am trying to make sure I have my facts straight.
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 11:30am
It sounds like you have all the basics down :) but you neglected to quote previous posters, grab segments of above posted reference articles to support your position and come to a completely unfounded conclusion!

Ah hell, it looks good to me and I think you absorbed the gist of everything spouted above :)

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Posts: 35 		  Quote Razor7 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 3:08pm
Well, I REALLY want 4 GBs of RAM, and I know the original RIG I bought from Vigor was cra*p with 4GBs. SO after reading your post, I still don't know if I will crash my DS system with 4 GBs?
 
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Posts: 659 		  Quote Kliebor2 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 3:45pm
Harley is definitely trust worthy thus far...

But he has been wrong... LOL

However in this case I would agree, 4 Gigs should not crash your machine... it may not see it all, but it should be ok.

Dave Star
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Posts: 35 		  Quote Razor7 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by harleyman

No it will not crash your system.......  
 
 
Who told you at DS that XP can't have more that 2 gigs of ram? 
 
I'm typing on a HP that has 4 gigs in it...I put them there myself.......
 
It just does not properly use it all as a 64 bit system will..........Only shows using 3.5 gigs
 
But it will use it.........Trust me....LOL   Famous last words.here......Smile 
 
 
The sales guy at DSAngry--and he said it right after I had a long series of "unexplainable" crashes on the Vigor rig that had 4 GBs--so I didn't want to take the chance. I figured I would just upgrade to 4 GBs when I upgrade to a 64-bit OS.
 
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Tyler Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 1:35am
Maybe, he was thinking of the increased requirements running 4GB can place on a northbridge controller. All motherboards are not created equal. Not all RAM plays nicely when 4 DIMM slots are populated. Sometimes systems can get pretty unstable if a motherboard can't handle the additional stress.
 
One thing I have learned is that the boys and girls at DSO know what they're talking about. The cool thing about where they work, is not only does each tech get to see hundreds of different problems and solutions which leads to really, *really* knowing their stuff, but they are in a room full of other people that also really, *really* know their stuff.
 
If the tech said your problems were related to RAM, maybe it wasn't something quite so obvious behind that statement.
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