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Replacing my wife's DS rig (2012) - help please

Post Date: 2022-02-12

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darbebo View Drop Down
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  Quote darbebo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Replacing my wife's DS rig (2012) - help please
    Posted: 12 Feb 2022 at 12:51pm
Hi Guys - looking to replace wife's DS computer from 2012. It hasn't broke down so looking to replicate here.

Budget:
[3000-5000]

Expectations:
1. Make it last 10yrs without any upgrade or fixing, use as is
2. Future proof (enough) to play new games as it comes up (understand that will dial down setting as years go by)

Usage:
1. Outlook, LOCAL cache storing a lot of emails so she can search faster
2. Remote work
3. Gaming (Horizon Dawn, DOTA, VR, Monster Hunter), web-surfing

Specific Needs:
1. Need to support 2 monitors at the same time (currently have 2x DELL S2417DG)

UPDATED Saved Ticket #: [4300379]
https://www.digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=4300379

Questions regarding the build:

1. Opting for the MSI MPG Z690 Carbon to get the bluetooth capability (so I don't have to keep using dongle)
2. Any issues with the Ram choice?
3. It "might" be overkill but if I wanted a brand new PSU this is where it is.... thoughts?
4. Any issues with the SSD choices? 980 pro for the main one is that's where everything is happening.
5. COOLING - Ok so back in 2010 everyone recommended the NHD-14. Now it is no longer a choice. My understanding is that the NHD-15 vs the H20 Stage 2 cooling (AIO) is "around the same" in cooling perf, BUT the NHD-15 should have better longevity. With that in mind, would you suggest to reach out to DS to ask them to custom put in a NHD15 for me? Is it worth the hassle/cost here so I don't have to worry about replacing the AIO after 5 yrs?
6. Is it worth the chassis fan upgrade for $200? Is the CM fans have better performance over standard? or is it just color gimmick?
7. Back in 2010/2012 having the CPU overclocked to stage 1 was all the rage/sweetspot. But recently I heard that with the no chips and all, there's no need to do that and we should NOT overclock and get back some longevity. Thoughts?
8. ANY other thoughts are welcome here.


Chassis Model: Digital Storm Velox
Processor: Intel Core i7-12700K (4.9 GHz Turbo) (20-Thread) (12-Core) 3.6 GHz (Alder Lake)
Motherboard: ASUS Prime Z690-A (Intel Z690 Chipset) (Up to 3x PCI-E Devices) (No SLI) (DDR5) <br><strong></strong>
System Memory: 32GB DDR5 5200MHz FURY Beast <br><strong></strong>
Power Supply: 1200W Silverstone / EVGA / Thermaltake (Modular) (80 Plus Gold) <br><strong></strong>
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (2TB Samsung 980 PRO) (NVM Express) (Gen4 PCIe) <br><strong></strong>
Storage Set 2: 1x SSD M.2 (2TB Samsung 970 EVO PLUS) (NVM Express) <br><strong></strong>
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (VR Ready) <br><strong></strong>
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Dual Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance) <br><strong></strong>
Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU - Up to 4.7GHz on All CPU Cores <br><strong></strong>
Boost Graphics Card(s): - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system



BIG THANK YOU !

Edited by darbebo - 12 Feb 2022 at 2:22pm
Number of DS rig owned: 2
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MrCheetah View Drop Down
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  Quote MrCheetah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 12 Feb 2022 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by darbebo

1. Opting for the MSI MPG Z690 Carbon to get the bluetooth capability (so I don't have to keep using dongle)

I did not notice the Prime Z690-A lacked wireless chips. Helpful recognition.

Originally posted by darbebo

2. Any issues with the Ram choice?

No.

Originally posted by darbebo

3. It "might" be overkill but if I wanted a brand new PSU this is where it is.... thoughts?

You could drop down to the 1000 W and have solid headroom.

Estiimated power consumption of ~695 watts

Originally posted by darbebo

4. Any issues with the SSD choices? 980 pro for the main one is that's where everything is happening.

The drive models, no. However, you might want to re-evaluate your capacity choices.

Foremost:
Originally posted by darbebo

Outlook, LOCAL cache storing a lot of emails so she can search faster

As someone who used email inboxes as storage bins and browser tabs as quicker bookmarks for many years, I realized that's not a great approach/method.

• If the mailbox file becomes corrupted, all gone.
• Outlook performance issues when there are too many items or folders in a cached mode .ost or .pst file | Microsoft -- in other words, email clients are not designed as mass database handlers

Active or foreseeably active conversations can remain, although, I have switched to saving important email (e.g., messages, receipts, confirmations) to an archive folder with sub-organization.

Save a message as a file | Microsoft
(PDF should retain images, links, and formatting)

Related:

Three Ways to Quickly Search Your Computer’s Files on Windows 10 | How-To Geek

Why Are Email Files so Large? | Lifewire

Instead, I would base your main drive capacity on what you will store in the default media organization folders (Desktop, Documents, Movies, Music, Photos, Downloads) plus perhaps one or two of the largest installation games. All while intending to have at least 30% of the total drive capacity free/available.

The second drive is recommended for (further) game library and other storage benefiting from faster load times.

One more thing... Always have at least one backup (e.g., USB HDD, cloud drive) of important data.

Originally posted by darbebo

5. COOLING - Ok so back in 2010 everyone recommended the NHD-14. Now it is no longer a choice. My understanding is that the NHD-15 vs the H20 Stage 2 cooling (AIO) is "around the same" in cooling perf, BUT the NHD-15 should have better longevity. With that in mind, would you suggest to reach out to DS to ask them to custom put in a NHD15 for me? Is it worth the hassle/cost here so I don't have to worry about replacing the AIO after 5 yrs?

Given your preference and usage, going the NH-D15(S) could indeed be a worthwhile choice -- I like Noctua's decision to now offer the more aesthetic universal chromax.black versions.

I will pass the remaining explanation onto Steve :

Liquid Cooling vs. Air Cooling Benchmark In-Depth (NH-D15, NZXT X62, & More) | Gamers Nexus (YouTube)

Of course, this may be moot if DS is no longer willing to ship a system with a large CPU cooling tower.

Originally posted by darbebo

6. Is it worth the chassis fan upgrade for $200? Is the CM fans have better performance over standard? or is it just color gimmick?

Five RGB Fan Showdown 2020 - Which one is right for your rig? (Airflow and Noise Test) | 2GuysTek (YouTube)

As far as I am aware, DS does not give specs for "standard" fans. However, generally, the Halos are likely better when the utmost airflow is needed (i.e., running at high RPM). Considering the Velox design/layout, you should not need to run the case fans at max speed. So, the performance difference may be minor. Even so, if you do enjoy lighting effects/accents, the upgrade is probably an okay value.

Originally posted by darbebo

7. Back in 2010/2012 having the CPU overclocked to stage 1 was all the rage/sweetspot. But recently I heard that with the no chips and all, there's no need to do that and we should NOT overclock and get back some longevity. Thoughts?

There really is not. CPU and GPU manufacturers have been doing much better binning overall, selling components that are already extremely close to max performance.

With that said, the 12700K's all-core (P-core) Max frequency is 4.7GHz at stock.

Whether it is default gaming motherboard settings and/or because of Intel's latest Turbo technologies, Tau (the time limit for Turbo Boost), is non-existent. For example, my system's 11700K holds 4.6GHz on all eight cores indefinitely with "Optimized Defaults" selected in the BIOS/UEFI.

If you are interested further, I posted about experimenting with one-click overclocking not long ago.

Originally posted by darbebo

8. ANY other thoughts are welcome here.

Nothing offhand.

Edited by MrCheetah - 14 Feb 2022 at 10:58am
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 13 Feb 2022 at 12:54am
Welcome back. AwesomeAnd congratulations on a long lasting system. Strong

+1Oops MrCheetah

For the Noctua (which I would also go with), you have to call in your order so that it can be special ordered. It has been done recently. They are risky to ship but IMO worth it.

You do know that the Velox has the window on the right side when facing the front and the mobo is mounted upside down with the gpu on top of the cpu (where you can see the best part of a gpu). Great roomy case for air cooling.

Enjoy.

Smile





Edited by hoserator - 13 Feb 2022 at 12:56am
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 13 Feb 2022 at 4:13am
Originally posted by hoserator


Welcome back. AwesomeAnd congratulations on a long lasting system. Strong
+1Oops MrCheetah
For the Noctua (which I would also go with), you have to call in your order so that it can be special ordered. It has been done recently. They are risky to ship but IMO worth it.

I'm a regular, and I am unaware of someone recently special ordering a Noctua and having DS install and ship it. IIRC, the customer lived in Cali and picked the rig up himself. They stopped offering it precisely because the number of systems substantially damaged in shipping became a problem. I have doubts they would do that, and if they did, they could hardly assume any responsibility for it. What I do recall recently is another customer receiving his system and installing his own Noctua after the fact. I'm pretty sure that's your option, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

For the rest, MrCheetah's got you covered. If you get that monster SSD for Storage set 1, be sure to isolate your "C" drive in an appropriate manageable partition so you are not scanning and backing up 2TB. It just makes everything easier and quicker to manage.   
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 13 Feb 2022 at 6:14am
@ Cretae: It can be special ordered, might not be shipped but I'll let DS answer that one. Up to them and the purchaser and his/her particulars, n'est-ce pas?

As to the rest....


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  Quote darbebo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 13 Feb 2022 at 12:32pm
Thank you so much guys for your responses. I do have 1 question (for now) for Cretae:

When you said "be sure to isolate your "C" drive in an appropriate manageable partition so you are not scanning and backing up 2TB. It just makes everything easier and quicker to manage.   "

What does that mean? I thought the SSD drive #1 will = C drive, that's it (simple minded), so what do you mean by isolate the Cdrive?

EDIT - ok i did some reading but do I ask DS to partition prior to shipping or do I partition it myself after receipt? Partitioning looks difficult..

Edited by darbebo - 13 Feb 2022 at 12:46pm
Number of DS rig owned: 2
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 14 Feb 2022 at 3:35am
I don't think DS will do that. The huge SSD will, indeed, be your C drive with the OS installed on it. Partitioning has been made easier through the years, and Windows comes with a Wizard that will walk you through it. I used a program a few years ago called Ease US Partition Master that comes in a free trial edition that will work fine for your (probably) one time use. I mention it only because IDK how the Windows wizard works, but this one was truly easy with sliders to establish just how large you want your C partition to be. (I'd think around 150- 250 GB would be plenty depending on what you'd be doing from there. The program then designated the remainder of the drive "E" because "D" was already taken by the secondary drive DS put in. I had the option to use sliders to further subdivide that drive, but I didn't need to. The two partitions show up as discrete physical drives on my system even though they are not, and I use them as such. One, "C", is the OS drive I boot to, and I told Steam to download games to my "E" drive. The Steam program on my C drive will find the games wherever they were installed.

You could look at the Windows Wiz on a system you have to see what it's like. Go through the motions without changeing anything and see what it's like.

An alternative that avoids all this is simply order the 500GB 980 PRO for your primary drive, and then it will be more manageable without any fuss.

Get anything you want after that for bulk storage.

One of the main problems in the past with combining the OS drive with bulk storage on the same drive was that a Win re-install would wipe the whole drive. There are work-arounds now, but sometimes you still need to wipe the drive. On a partitioned drive, it's easier to have everything backed up so you don't lose anything. For me, I back up and scan my OS drive for viruses and malware more often than ever if it's small and doesn't take long.

Hope it helps.

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  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 14 Feb 2022 at 10:16am
I appreciated Cretae suggesting my SSD configuration of a 500GB 980 for OS and daily games and a 1TB 970 for my games library. This has worked for me but each person has their own storage requirements.

Having OS basically alone on its own drive has several advantages as Cretae mentioned.


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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 14 Feb 2022 at 1:15pm
I personally have never isolated the OS from games installed on the primary drive, hence why my just ordered rig has a 1TB drive as primary.   There is a good reason for partitions but for me, reinstalling games from Steam if that drive had to be reformatted isn’t a big deal.   With game progress being stored in the cloud, not so bad, for me at least. Plus if the drives fails, not just corrupted data, everything is wiped .

Not sure if DS would partition if you asked in commments section on bottom of order form.    Might be a charge if they do.

Have fun

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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 14 Feb 2022 at 1:39pm
+1

I keep docs and photos on separate drives in RAID 1.
With today's speeds, scans don't take as long anyways.
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  Quote darbebo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 4:02pm
Thanks again for your responses and Hi bprat22! Been a long while.

and yes - being just a computer "user" - buying a large capacity SSD is the only logical step for us and not have to worry about partition but I'll be reading up a bit more.
Number of DS rig owned: 2
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 5:11pm
Hi darbedo….. We go way back.   Nice seeing you.   
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  Quote darbebo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 8:25pm
WE ORDERED!!!!THANKS ALL!

2 things to note: we went with the 1200 PSU just so we can get a "Brand name PSU" ...definitely overkill but what's an extra 200 when you are spending 4k...

We got WINDOWS 10 (not 11) since it's gonna be a little while before windows 11 is more "mainstream" and more bugs resolved.


Chassis Model: Digital Storm Velox
Processor: Intel Core i7-12700K (4.9 GHz Turbo) (20-Thread) (12-Core) 3.6 GHz (Alder Lake)
Motherboard: ASUS Prime Z690-A (Intel Z690 Chipset) (Up to 3x PCI-E Devices) (No SLI) (DDR5)
System Memory: 32GB DDR5 5200MHz FURY Beast
Power Supply: 1200W Silverstone / EVGA / Thermaltake (Modular) (80 Plus Gold)
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (2TB Samsung 980 PRO) (NVM Express) (Gen4 PCIe)
Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (VR Ready)
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Dual Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)
Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (64-Bit)
Number of DS rig owned: 2
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  Quote hoserator Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Feb 2022 at 10:29pm
Congrats. Awesome
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 12:27am
Congrats and now the wait.   

I just went to stage 2 after 8 business days and all is good.     

Have fun.
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 3:49am
FYI, MS has taken pains in Win 11 to specifically accommodate the hybrid chip design in Alder Lake Intel chips. I have read that performance at least in certain benchmarks being used to test the Alder Lake chips is gimped in Win 10.

Here's a quote from an article from Tom's hardware:

"We're focusing on Windows 11 application test results for this article, but be aware that we encountered subpar performance in Windows 10 with some of the programs that worked perfectly in Windows 11. These problems arise due to a lack of software optimizations for hybrid architectures."

New info I just thought you'd like to look into.

BTW, I looked back, and it appears I may have helped you a bit with your first build in 2010.       
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  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 9:38am
Cretae,

I think you were the guy that helped me configure my Atari 400 with membrane keyboard years ago. I remember you suggesting 640KB but I went cheap with 512KB initially.

I got wise and picked up that extra 128KB to max out at 640KB and used that extra 128KB as a virtual disk to hold my OS.

Maybe it wasn't you that helped me but I heard you even helped Moses pick out a GPS to help him find his way out of the desert.

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  Quote darbebo Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 12:25pm
@Cretae - LOL you're right, and I'm not surprised. Thank you again, after 12 yrs hahaahha.

Regarding win 10/11 + new chip, i really don't know if i should tell DS to switch it to 11, especially since i dont know what programs Tom's hardware's talking about. Wife's really just gonna use it to use MS office, outlook, Dota, Steam games, surf webs, ESET antivirus, i mean, nothing fancy at all.

So if Tom's hardware is referring to some photoshop or watever then i guess leaving to win 10 as is, would be fine, but any thoughts you may have would be appreciated, thanks!
Number of DS rig owned: 2
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  Quote MrCheetah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Feb 2022 at 9:08pm
Regarding win 10/11 + new chip, i really don't know if i should tell DS to switch it to 11, especially since i dont know what programs Tom's hardware's talking about. Wife's really just gonna use it to use MS office, outlook, Dota, Steam games, surf webs, ESET antivirus, i mean, nothing fancy at all.

So if Tom's hardware is referring to some photoshop or watever then i guess leaving to win 10 as is, would be fine, but any thoughts you may have would be appreciated, thanks!

Appears, for the most part, Win 10 should be fine.

Intel Windows 10 vs. Windows 11 Alder Lake Benchmarks | Gamers Nexus (YouTube)
* Disclaimer: A few months old

Intel Alder Lake CPUs are now fixed for all games with DRM | TechRadar

Edited by MrCheetah - 25 Feb 2022 at 9:10pm
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Feb 2022 at 4:02am
They were talking specifically about performance in certain benchmarks, as I said. One assumes that means certain types of operations in the real world will be slowed, or as the article put it, show "subpar performance", but only compared to Windows 11. The hybrid nature of Alder Lake chips with high performance cores supplemented with high efficiency cores has not been tried before, but Intel and MS worked to together to help squeeze the best performance they could with Win 11. I merely thought to bring that to your attention.

I don't think there's anything to fear from Win 11, but your wife is not going to notice anything at all. You can't compare performances if you have only one example, and we're not talking anything major. Intel just took care to give MS the info to make sure the new OS would allow them to rule the roost for as long as possible. Bottom line: there's not much wrong with Win10 either. Sorry to rock your boat.   
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