Requesting some clarification and advice

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   Hello,

First time on this site, but liking what I'm seeing. I didn't even know you guys existed until I read the April 2009 PCGamer review. Enough chitchat though down to business.

One, my last system was self built, but something (I think it was the videocard and the motherboard never played well with each other). ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe 939 NVIDIA nFORCE 4 and an eVGA 256-P2-N518 Geforce 7800GT 256MB resulting in the occasional annoying hang and lockup.

Given that the person who helped me build it has also moved away I was thinking about coming back into the retail market this fall. That has been precluded by the fan going out on the 7800 GT which means I get about 5 minutes of graphic acceleration before the card is pushing 100 C and shuts itself down as it hits safety limits.

My thoughts are thus, right now I have a 19 inch monitor which has max native resolution of 1280 x 1024 but I was thinking about upgrading it when I got a new rig, so the 7800 was pretty obsolete but at low resolutions would have probably held me for another 6 months. Which coincidentally is about the time that Intel is saying that the 32 nm Nehalem process is going to be released, which at the bare minimum would drive down existing 45 nm core i7 prices. So my first question is thus.

1) Would, in your opinion, it make more sense to replace the 7800 GT with say a cheap 9800 GTX and hold out until the fall? If so does anyone have any data or an opinion of whether a 9800 GTX would get bottlenecked anyway by a 3700 AMD (2.2 Ghz ) Athlon processor (single core). I have 600w of powersupply to play with, but the case I chose 4 years ago hasn't really put out enough airflow (only a total of 160mm intake and 120 mm exhaust)  as I didn't know about the wonders of aftermarket cooling at the time the Athlon has a stock cooler on it and so it idles at around 40 C so overall heat load becomes a major issue.

2) My other option I'm looking at is simply biting the bullet and purchasing an i7 system. Most everything I have figured out but I want an opinion on the viability of the Antec 902 with the Gemini CPU cooler on an overclocked 920. I'm not looking for a massive bump here I'd be happy with taking the CPU to 3.0-3.2 GHz anything above that would be gravy. The other major heat load in case would be from a pair of GTX 260s in SLI. I haven't found any total Cubic Feet per minute numbers for the Antec 902 vs the Coolermaster HAF. Specs show the Antec 902 with 240mm of total intake and 320 mm of total exhaust with the CM HAF running 460 mm of total intake and 370mm of total exhaust. With the slower RPM speeds of the bigger fans on the HAF does it really make that much of a difference? 

3) Lastly in the OS selection for an i7 system the base selection is Windows Vista for Home..this is probably a "duh" question but is that the 64 bit version of the OS? 

Thank you for reading.

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Ifer Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4	Quote Reply Topic: Requesting some clarification and advice Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 3:21pm
	Hello, First time on this site, but liking what I'm seeing. I didn't even know you guys existed until I read the April 2009 PCGamer review. Enough chitchat though down to business. One, my last system was self built, but something (I think it was the videocard and the motherboard never played well with each other). ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe 939 NVIDIA nFORCE 4 and an eVGA 256-P2-N518 Geforce 7800GT 256MB resulting in the occasional annoying hang and lockup. Given that the person who helped me build it has also moved away I was thinking about coming back into the retail market this fall. That has been precluded by the fan going out on the 7800 GT which means I get about 5 minutes of graphic acceleration before the card is pushing 100 C and shuts itself down as it hits safety limits. My thoughts are thus, right now I have a 19 inch monitor which has max native resolution of 1280 x 1024 but I was thinking about upgrading it when I got a new rig, so the 7800 was pretty obsolete but at low resolutions would have probably held me for another 6 months. Which coincidentally is about the time that Intel is saying that the 32 nm Nehalem process is going to be released, which at the bare minimum would drive down existing 45 nm core i7 prices. So my first question is thus. 1) Would, in your opinion, it make more sense to replace the 7800 GT with say a cheap 9800 GTX and hold out until the fall? If so does anyone have any data or an opinion of whether a 9800 GTX would get bottlenecked anyway by a 3700 AMD (2.2 Ghz ) Athlon processor (single core). I have 600w of powersupply to play with, but the case I chose 4 years ago hasn't really put out enough airflow (only a total of 160mm intake and 120 mm exhaust) as I didn't know about the wonders of aftermarket cooling at the time the Athlon has a stock cooler on it and so it idles at around 40 C so overall heat load becomes a major issue. 2) My other option I'm looking at is simply biting the bullet and purchasing an i7 system. Most everything I have figured out but I want an opinion on the viability of the Antec 902 with the Gemini CPU cooler on an overclocked 920. I'm not looking for a massive bump here I'd be happy with taking the CPU to 3.0-3.2 GHz anything above that would be gravy. The other major heat load in case would be from a pair of GTX 260s in SLI. I haven't found any total Cubic Feet per minute numbers for the Antec 902 vs the Coolermaster HAF. Specs show the Antec 902 with 240mm of total intake and 320 mm of total exhaust with the CM HAF running 460 mm of total intake and 370mm of total exhaust. With the slower RPM speeds of the bigger fans on the HAF does it really make that much of a difference? 3) Lastly in the OS selection for an i7 system the base selection is Windows Vista for Home..this is probably a "duh" question but is that the 64 bit version of the OS? Thank you for reading.

DST4ME Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 4:59pm
	ok well let me see, first of all there is no i7 coming out this fall, so I'm not sure what you are talking about, the next round of cpus to knock the prices of current chips are going to be this may with the i7 950 and 975 which will replace current 940 and 960. Once they are out I don't thing people will want the 940 and 965 cause the 950 and 975 will oc better. After them the next round of chips to effect i7 are going to be sometime in 2010. as for 902 vs haf, they are not comparable, 902 is a mid tower and haf is a full tower, this means that the haf has more room = better airflow, better upgradability, better over all. as for the os selection, you have a choice of selecting any os you want so I'm kinda of lost on you question however in order to use all of your system's resources you need 64bit. my advise to you is to get something like this: here you go Ticket# 262122 --- Price: $2378 (To see this build click here) Price after current promotion $2228 Copy of Specifications: Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932 Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core) Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire) System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified) Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) Card Reader: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB (216 Cores) (Includes PhysX Technology) Add-on Card: - No Thanks Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Cooler Master V8 (Compatible With i7 Processors) Liquid Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a H20: Stage 3 Cooling System Selected Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red) Enhancements: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts) Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based) Virus Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks Benchmarking: - No Thanks Install/Test Game: - No Thanks LCD Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks External Storage: - No Thanks Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty you can add upto 3 x 260 gtx to this system to meet all your graphic power needs. This system has more room to grow with you over the years. your oc with a 920 and cm v8 can be from 3.3GHz to 3.8GHz.
	Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers

Ifer Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 6:11pm
	http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3513 32 nm process shrink of the i7 microarchitecture either in late 2009 or early 2010. We may be talking about the same thing. I had considered holding out until april/may but based on what I've been reading the most serious cuts and the ones coming first will be for the Core2Duo's as Intel tries to undermine the Phenom 2 which is competeting against the C2D's rather than the i7. The higher clock speed i7's coming out in May could push down the prices on the i7 920, but given that AMD doesn't really have anything that competes directly against it I would expect any drop to minimal and instead have the new higher clock i7's get slotted in at higher price points. This is what Im specifically looking at. Chassis Model: Antec Nine Hundred Two Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core) Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire) System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified) Power Supply: 650W Corsair TX (Dual SLI Compatible) Card Reader: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB (216 Cores) (Includes PhysX Technology) Add-on Card: - No Thanks Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional (PCI-Express Slot Based) Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 1: Cooler Master GeminII S (Compatible With i7 Processors) Liquid Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a H20: Stage 3 Cooling System Selected Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Blue) Enhancements: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based) Virus Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks Benchmarking: - No Thanks Install/Test Game: - No Thanks LCD Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks External Storage: - No Thanks Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty I know the 650 w power supply could be problematic if I want to upgrade in the future, but there is a budget I'm trying to stay within and going one minor step up on every option is budgetary death by a thousand cuts. If 650w is enough for a small overclock (like I said I'm not looking for a miracle) on the i7 920 and both GTX 260's that should be enough. The two 260's are essentially a 295 and if i do get a 24'' monitor thats still only 1980 x 1260 resolution. Given the current performance level that setup should last several years before I would need to upgrade, not sure it makes sense to spend the money now when I won't need a larger power supply for several years. On the case given that I don't forsee the need to go to 3X SLI do I really need the massive HAF case? On the OS yes I know I can choose what I ever I want...I just wanted to make sure that the basic option "Microsoft Windows Home Premium" is the 64 bit version of vista and not the 32 bit. Thanks for the reply, your opinion is very helpful.

tman5890 Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 6:21pm
	You should really go with the 1000w power supply instead of getting the extra gtx 260 and the sound card. You can always get another gpu later and it takes like 2mins to install but getting a new power supply and installing is pretty bothersome. Nowadays the onboard sound is pretty good and if you really wanted to cut corners you wouldn't get an add-on sound card.


DST4ME Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 7:21pm
	tman is right, GPU is always easier to upgrade then PSU so you should go with basically the system I configed. but if you don't see yourself going tri sli 260 then go with the 750w PSU. 2 x 260 is almost like a 295 but not exactly, the difference is minimal tho. but then in turn the 2 x 260 is cheaper then 1 x 295. 1 x 295 or 2 x 295 is all you need to run 1900 x 1200. as I explained the HAF keeps better temps because its roomier and with 2 x 260+ you want to go with HAF anyways, unless you want everything cramped up. so here are 2 choices, the first one is the best one and if you can, go with that one, in teh long run you will be very happy you did, in 2010 you should be able to use the same mobo for the 6 core cpu coming out. if it says vista home premium then its 32bit, the 64bit version, states that its a 64bit. as you can see in my builds the os says "64bit" here you go Ticket# 262167 --- Price: $2554 (To see this build click here) Price after current promotion $2479 Copy of Specifications: Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932 Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core) Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire) System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified) Power Supply: 750W Corsair TX (Dual SLI Compatible) Card Reader: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB (216 Cores) (Includes PhysX Technology) Add-on Card: - No Thanks Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Cooler Master V8 (Compatible With i7 Processors) Liquid Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a H20: Stage 3 Cooling System Selected Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red) Enhancements: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts) Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based) Virus Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks Benchmarking: - No Thanks Install/Test Game: - No Thanks LCD Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks External Storage: - No Thanks Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty --------------------------------------------------------- or this one: here you go Ticket# 262170 --- Price: $2335 (To see this build click here) Price after current promotion $2185 Copy of Specifications: Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932 Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish Processor: Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (Quad Core) Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire) System Memory: 3GB DDR3 1333MHz Mushkin (Highly Recommended) (Digital Storm Certified) Power Supply: 750W Corsair TX (Dual SLI Compatible) Card Reader: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA) Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: - No Thanks Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x) Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 896MB (216 Cores) (Includes PhysX Technology) Add-on Card: - No Thanks Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Cooler Master V8 (Compatible With i7 Processors) Liquid Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a H20: Stage 3 Cooling System Selected Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Red) Enhancements: - No Thanks Chassis Mods: - No Thanks Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s) Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts) Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based) Virus Protection: - No Thanks Office: - No Thanks Benchmarking: - No Thanks Install/Test Game: - No Thanks LCD Display: - No Thanks Surge Shield: - No Thanks Speakers: - No Thanks Keyboard: - No Thanks Mouse: - No Thanks External Storage: - No Thanks Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty upgrade this system to 6GB (add 3 more GB) in a couple of month Edited by DST4ME - 22 Mar 2009 at 7:22pm
	Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers

Ifer Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 7:59pm
	Hmm...I see. Thanks for the clarification on the OS it was the whole (for enthusiats) that was throwing me. On the soundcard issue. Its possible my head is still back in 2005 on this. Back then if you wanted decent sound you did not under any circumstances use onboard audio. Do more modern boards give 7.1 audio with full 3D positional sound and come with decent headphone/microphone jacks? I suppose if push comes to shove I could pull my Creative SB X-Fi out of my current rig and install it...question then becomes if I'll have a usable PCI slot if I go with dual 260s i guess. Out of curiosity does anyone know what kind of Thermal Interface material DS uses?

tman5890 Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 18 Feb 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 282	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 8:11pm
	Yes, the onboard sound is much much better now. You shouldn't have any problem with it, and if you do you can always upgrade later. You need the essentials first, then you worry about the rest.


DST4ME Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List DS ELITE Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 36758	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 8:41pm
	with the EVGA x58 you can have tri sli, since you will only use 2, that leaves open 2 more PCI slots.
	Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers

Mezzeron Members Profile Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 212	Quote Reply Posted: 22 Mar 2009 at 8:54pm
	While I agree that onboard sound has come a long way...it in NO WAY comes close to a great sound card. But get the important, more future proof stuff now. But, there are easy to install and relatively inexpensive, so easier to upgrade later. It will also make you appreciate it more after living with onboard sound. If you have always had a sound card, and decide to go with mobo sound, you will notice it instantly. I spoiled myself long ago with my first soundblaster, and there is no going back now. Definately get the bigger PSU, because ANYTHING else is a breeze to change out, PSU is not.

Requesting some clarification and advice

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