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Some questions that might impact build.

Post Date: 2010-12-26

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TheInternets View Drop Down
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  Quote TheInternets Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Some questions that might impact build.
    Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 3:51pm
I just had a few questions I thought I would also ask about. If I am wrong about something please let me know because I am not very technical.

I hear and read some articles about the dual-gpu boards coming from Nvidia and Amd/Ati and was wondering if I ever wanted to upgrade to those boards when they come out, would my 750W PSU be able to handle it? I am not looking to get into SLI anytime soon and I think SLI might require a higher PSU such as a 1000W and I am just wondering if those upcoming video cards would require the same.

My second question is regarding Solid State Drives. I know people who use them and have read many articles about them. A few people whom I personally know have had issues with them that are consistent with what is written about online. Mainly about drives slowing down or going dead. My concern is how easy are they to maintain? What I mean is I hear about drive cleaning, some recommend maintaining 20% or more free space, TRIM, limit file movement/deletion on the drive to slow degradation and having to shut down page file. I know about the huge performance boost of an SSD but just would like your guys' take on whether it is a worthwhile option for someone who likes to install and delete games or programs every few weeks. Would having an SSD as a secondary drive show improvement to gaming or does it have to be the OS drive? I think my overall mindset right now is concerns over reliability.

Finally, is there a worthwhile benefit to Windows 7 Professional over Windows 7 Home Premium? I see some of the options such as XP Mode and think they might come in useful but I am not completely sure.

Thanks for any help

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 4:01pm
there are dual gpu cards out right now, they are in internal sli/cf, so 2 of those cards = quad sli/cf. you are talking about the 6990 form ati right.

quad scaling right now is not as good as tri scaling so you want to stay away from that, so in short, if you say have a 570 gtx, instead of upgrading to one of those cards, add another 570 gtx, for better temps and performance.

Ideal psu for dual 570 gtx would be a good 1000w psu like the corsair here or the corsair 850HX is another good one not offered here.

with a 750w for dual sli would be pushing it.

for one of the dual gpu cards a 750w should do, but I like to have more room to play.

SSDs are great, but all are not the same, in ssds you want to go with intel, its got teh best speed and one of the best controllers, maintaining is simple, you install it, set your bios to ahci, and with windows 7 you got nothing to do, everything pretty much takes care of itself without you doing anything.

right now the only question about intel ssds are, is the price worth it to me, performance vs HDD is not even up for discussion, ssd wins hands down.

intel is comeing out with gen 3 of their ssd in a few months, that will be even better than the current ones.

win7 pro also gives you remote desktop along with xp mode which is in virtual environment.

Edited by DST4ME - 26 Dec 2010 at 4:04pm
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  Quote TheInternets Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 6:23pm
Hi DST4ME,

Thank you for the response :)

Yes, I was referring to the ati 6990 and the GTX 590 from Nvidia. Any idea whether one of those cards require a 1000W power supply? Just one of them.

Hmm I understand the performance aspects of an SSD, but do you have to clean the drive often or is it as you stated that Windows 7 will do everything in the background and you dont have to do anything to maintain the drive. I dont mind pricing, just reliability. Because if write speeds slow down to the point of being slower than HDDs as some say it can happen, or if I have to always be cautious about the free drive space left and reducing the amount of writing to the drive so it degrades slower...it seems like it may become quite a hassle. I am not lazy but just having to remember everything on a day to day basis along with other things going on in my life is weighing down on it. Also, Windows has updates quite often along with browser updates and things like malware detection software updates, doesnt that constantly write to the SSD if you are using the SSD as the main drive? Even with current SSD technology that assures even wear on each cell in the SSD, the fact that it wears down in such a way still doesnt sound very reassuring. I typically like to install and delete things on a regular basis on the main drive so im wondering under my use, how many years can I expect for the life of one SSD, will it perform just about as well as it did when it was brand new say 5-10 years from time of purchase and will there be any dead cells that reduce drive space. By perform I mean read and write speeds. I am asking so many questions about SSDs because aside from the general maintenance of the drives, I have a friend who had his SSD essentially die on him, where the drive cannot be written to anymore nor altered in any way (the drive was far from full capacity) but the drive can still be read from. The other incident is with a co-worker who just had the entire drive die where he couldnt boot and he reverted back to an HDD, he installed the SSD on another computer and it was the SSD (he only had it for three weeks). I then read a lot about similar issues online from other people.

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  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 6:25pm
vouching a little bit more on Windows versions..

Windows 7 pro has what DST said, as well as being able to make a secure connection to a business domain easier. Unless you're using your system at a business, the domain thing isn't too helpful. XP Mode is nice, but seriously it's not too much. I have Ultimate, and completely regret it; I have really no use for XP Mode. Heck, I got my rig back from an RMA in June, and I haven't bothered to reinstall XP Mode at all. XP Mode's purpose is solely for those business' that have programs that can NOT run in Vista or 7, for discontinuing reasons or other reasons. Therefore, because it's oriented toward these programs, it's sort of sluggish. Not anything you can run a modern game decently in. So that's out of the question if that's what you were hoping for it to do.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Dec 2010 at 6:45pm
For usual use of ssd like mine and yours the wear and tear is ok, win7 does everything in the background, I'm sure before you notice any performance loss from your ssd, you have already gotten a new one (3 to 5 years) that does much better then today's drives, if you want the performance of ssds, thats the onlyh way to have it, I have my main os on a ssd and do lot of installing and deleting of apps and files and etc. Intel drives come with a 3 year warranty anyways, so you know you are good for 3 years at least, these are new drives so till we have all used them for 5 years I can't really say how the performance is gonna be, theoretically it should be better then a hdd after 5 year of medium use.

As for reading issues about drives dying, it can happen to any drive, I have had HDDs go out on me left and right, also as I said before its important to remember that not all ssds are the same, I'm talking about intel gen 2 and intel gen 3 here, even if it dies, you have the DS warranty and the Intel warranty.

You can always format the ssd after a few year, and get performance back, if I'm not mistaken.

Edited by DST4ME - 26 Dec 2010 at 6:48pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Dec 2010 at 8:57am
My Gen 1, Intel SSD's have had windows installed on them , and all of my steam games, and 3d mark benchmarks installed least 50+ times. Then there is all those hard drive bemch marks you are not suppose to run because of the extreme amount of writes they induce, + I have wiped the free space off a few times, and the worst drive is at 98% life.
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  Quote TheInternets Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 3:10am
Does having a bigger sized SSD usually mean faster speed? Once you install an SSD as your main OS drive, what are the steps to maintaining it regularly? Steps that you guys personally take. Do you guys disable page file on the SSD? How much free space must be maintained? Looking for details because I am about to bite the bullet and get an SSD in build.

Anyone have an idea what power supply can run a single 6990 or GTX 590/595? Wondering if a 750W is enough for a single card.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 4:11am
Don't get the 6990 or 590/595, those are dual cards in internal cf/sli, you don't want/need that. the will perform the same as sli 570 most likey but run hotter.

there is nothing to do with ssd, as I mentioned all will run in the background and take care of itself, with the intel drives you don't need to keep any free space tho I like to keep at least 20% off myself, but I don't have the intel, waiting on gen 3, I have a ocz.

my page file is disabled, but I have always had that disabled, once you have enough ram, you don't need it.

you just need to remember not to defrag a ssd, and make sure windows defrag service is off.

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  Quote TheInternets Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 5:16am
Hi again DST4ME,

Thanks again for your response,

I am just keeping the option open for future video cards. I am wondering whether a 1000w PSU would be enough for one of those cards if I do choose to get one.

I am pretty noob so please bear with me. I am also a single video card solution type of person. Um, another question would be what motherboard to pick between the Evga SLI 3 and the Asus Sabertooth... I know the Evga has only one PCIe x16 slot so how important would that be if I ever wanted to SLI current generation cards or use a next generation card. Since the 6990 and 590/595 are internal cf/sli like you said DST4ME, do you think they will use two PCIe slots per card and do they both have to be x16?

Do you know the specs on a generation 3 SSD and any estimated costs?

Thanks for all the help



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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 5:38am
A good 1000w psu will give you sli 570, if you go with one 570 now and then add a second 570 later, that would be better pricewise and performancewise instead of a 6990/590.

the 6990/590 are 2 gpus in one card, so the card runs hotter and uses more power, but dual sli 570 will match/beat it most likely. the price of those cards are gonna be almost double the price of a 570 now.

as for pci lanes, all current cards, single gpu or dual gpu cards take up 2 pci lanes, but use only one of the them,, the other is covered by the width of the card. these cards are gonna be just like the 295 gtx.

when you get one of these cards, you are not a single solution card user, you are in sli/cf, the only difference is that the 2 gpus are on one card and the sli/cf is internal instead of external.

if you have sli 570 one on 16x and the other on 8x, the fps difference for most games is like 4 fps, there are a couple of games out there that the difference is much bigger if I remember correctly but in most games it barely made a difference.

for card like the 6990/590, I believe you are going to want the pci lane to be 16x, since they are dual they need more bandwidth if I'm not mistaken.

don't know the specs of the gen 3 ssds.

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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 5:58am
Intel G3 specs.

Write speeds are up, small file speeds are up some, but otherwise are not too much different from G2 speeds. The biggest differences is that their write endurance will be much greater (better NAND, more spare area) and their prices are slated to be introduced at $1/GB, around half that of current SSD prices.

Intel SSDs are more about reliability, steady state performance, and price, not bleeding edge speeds.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 12:39pm
AT 4k tho they are still the fastest if I'm not mistaken.
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by DST4ME

AT 4k tho they are still the fastest if I'm not mistaken.

The Crucial RealSSD C300 currently does a little better than the G2s at 4k speeds. We'll have to see how the G3s compare when they come out.

I'd still take G2 or G3s over a C300 any day though.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 1:25pm
Is that the one with the good controller?
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 2:41pm
It's currently the only one that will manage over SATA 3Gbps speeds so far, though that's largely pointless until Intel's 6Gbps ports come out. It's had a whooole lot of nasty firmware issues in the past, but it's looking a lot more solid these days, and prices have dropped substantially, they used to go for a high premium.

I'd take one over a SandForce SSD, but I'd still take an Intel over all others. Like I said before, Intel might not do extreme bleeding edge speeds, but they do reliability, steady state performance, small file random performance, and price. Other SSDs? Not so much.

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Dec 2010 at 2:47pm
Ya in ssds I recommend intel now in days also, I agree reliability and wear and tear intel is king.
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