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Welcome all thoughts!

Post Date: 2022-11-14

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DDOT99 View Drop Down
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  Quote DDOT99 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Welcome all thoughts!
    Posted: 14 Nov 2022 at 3:58pm
Hey all! Long time Digital Storm customer here. Looking to get my 3rd rig, as I'm passing my current one down to my sons. As previously, before I pull the trigger, I wanted to toss out my configuration to get your thoughts on any adjustments I should make.

First, the necessary background info...

Budget: $3500 - $4000 - could stretch a little on that if it is REALLY worth it.

Use Case: I am a photographer and use my PC for photo editing (Lightroom and Photoshop) as well as for gaming. I have a NAS for photo archiving, so don't need huge amounts of storage in the computer. And as far as gaming, I don't play many really demanding games (long time WoW and other MMORPGs, with some Elite Sniper and others), but would like to be able to play newer stuff as it comes out. Also I would like the rig to be as quiet as possible.


A few thoughts then a couple questions:
To optimize my photo editing workflow, the sources I've seen say the 16 core and 64 gb ram are the way to go
I may add more storage later, but no need to pay the premium to have it installed by DS
Questions:
Should I hold off until the 4080 drops in a couple days to take advantage of price drops? I was excited for the 4080 12G, but now that that version is no more, I don't think the 16G version is worth the price premium. Welcome contrasting thoughts though

Any compelling reason to get the ROG Strix MB other than the extra USB-C ports?

Is 850 W PS enough - would the higher W help with noise enough to be worth it?
Any other thoughts are welcome as well. Appreciate it in advance.

Cheers!


Edited by DDOT99 - 14 Nov 2022 at 4:10pm
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Cretae View Drop Down
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  Quote Cretae Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 15 Nov 2022 at 5:03am
You seem to know just what you want/need. It would certainly be a smart thing just to see what happens when the 4080 drops tomorrow. I'd get the 1000W PSU to be on the safe side of future upgrades.

Pricier motherboards usually run cooler in addition to having more outputs, but I don't think it's an issue for your Velox. Powerful build.   
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 2:44am
you could switch over to the Intel 13700K for same/better performance at lower price.  it has the benefit of using both DDR5 and cheaper DDR4 memory and mobos.  lower priced platform overall, but also dead end (Raptorlake).  Intel is switching over to chiplet process with entirely new socket going forward.  the combo of higher cpu core counts and more system memory should serve you well in both workloads and online multiplayer gaming (i.e. MMORPG's) as those games tend to be more "cpu bound".  if you plan on higher resolution (like 4K) gaming that's where at min. a 3080 purchase would be advised.  i personally drive both my primary 32" 4K monitor and 24" 1080p monitor with a 3080 10GB card.  my bottleneck is usually the old I7-6700K i haven't upgraded as yet, but i'm also feeling like i need more graphics oomph as well (the 10GB isn't always enough). 

the slower memory shouldn't mess with your workloads either, as it relies on amount over speed iirc. 

the 360 AIO cooler is the minimum i'd recommend.  you might want to spring for a Hydrolux liquid cooling loop if you stretch your budget.  the more cooling power you have the quieter your pc will be as you can run the fans at lower speeds while still managing thermal loads. 

as for opting for the more expensive mobo, that's a personal choice on what features you need/want.  the Prime X670/Z90 should be fine for most users. 




Edited by db188 - 16 Nov 2022 at 2:44am
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Nov 2022 at 11:02am
4080 tech reviewers aren't ecstatic about the value of this card.  it sits a little above a 3090ti's performance while more power efficient. 

there's no reason to get any of these high end cards unless you're gaming at 4K. 

bottom line, i'd wait for the soon to be launch of AMD's new offerings if you're in the market for anything other than paying max price for the flagship Nvidia 4090.
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  Quote DDOT99 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Nov 2022 at 8:04am
All great insights - Thank you! Need to noodle a bit and see where I land. I don't feel great about the value of the Nvidia cards right now, so like the idea of waiting.

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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Nov 2022 at 10:21am
yeah, nothing out now or coming soon that will come close to the performance of the 4090, but the prices right now, Whoa!  $2,600 on Newegg for most vendor cards. 

the XT and XTX will compete with lower sku Nvidia cards, so worth waiting to see where the value (performance+price) is.  if the $1000 7900 XTX is close to the 4080 and they can saturate the market with them, Nvidia will be in trouble. 
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  Quote MrCheetah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 Nov 2022 at 1:00pm
I agree, definitely great suggestions and comments thus far. Nonetheless, a little expansion and reminders of my own:


CPU

Intel has the cheaper platform cost right now (e.g., Core i9 13900K is $599 vs. $699 for Ryzen 9 7950X). With that said, AMD has stretched their CPU socket quite nicely, and claimed to continue that with AM5. So, if you are someone to upgrade CPUs later on, AMD is the way to go.

Regarding performance:

Adobe Photoshop: 13th Gen Intel Core vs AMD Ryzen 7000 | Puget Systems

RAM

Originally posted by Puget Systems

How much RAM does Photoshop need?
The exact amount you need will depend on exactly what you are doing, but based on your document size we recommend a minimum of 16GB of RAM for 500MB documents or smaller, 32GB for 500MB-1GB, and 64GB+ for even larger documents.

Note that this is for the document size once opened (as found in the “Document Sizes” section of the Info Panel or status bar), not the file size of the file itself. Photoshop will often list two sizes such as 20.3M/60.2M. The left number is the flat file size (if you were to export without compression), while the right number is the actual size of the Photoshop document with all the layers. The right number which includes all the layers is typically the most relevant when deciding how much RAM your system needs.

Source: Hardware Recommendations for Adobe Photoshop | Puget Systems

GPU

The RTX 3080 is a solid choice. As for Photoshop:
Originally posted by Puget Systems

For Photoshop, it is extremely important to have a supported GPU, but the actual performance of that card will not make a major impact on performance. Compared to the high-end GeForce RTX 3090, the much more modest RTX 3070 is within a single percent – even when only looking at GPU accelerated tasks.


So, it really comes down to gaming, which the 3080 appears plenty fine: WoW (4K), Elite Sniper (4K)

As a side note: The RTX 4000 series is primarily a benefit to those who prefer gaming eye candy, namely RT, want high frame rate in 4K (i.e., the 4000 series has much higher clock rates), or have a 3D rendering or scientific workload (i.e., higher clock rates and improved Tensor cores).

With that said, here are a couple more configs to consider:

Config # 4547185
Basically, your contemplated config on Intel's current platform, namely Core i9 13900K, and an upgrade to a 1kW PSU.

Or... Taking the following into account:
Originally posted by db188

the 360 AIO cooler is the minimum i'd recommend. you might want to spring for a Hydrolux liquid cooling loop if you stretch your budget. the more cooling power you have the quieter your pc will be as you can run the fans at lower speeds while still managing thermal loads.


Config # 4547183
Core i7 13700K cooled by the HydroLux PRO

I am unsure if this will provide extra cooling (e.g., if DS installs a 420mm radiator up front). Also, of course, this option only matters if you're okay with the extra maintenance and slightly higher damage risk of open loop cooling.

My own data sample (from what I can recall):

With a 360mm AIO, the 11700K as part of the rig in my sig:

While doing [email protected]:

• runs 4.8/4.9GHz all-core
• consumes upwards of 260W
-- any undervolting results in instability, not immediately but a crash and restart to BIOS within 48 hours.

With fans at full speed:

• in ~70ºF/21ºC ambient
-- CPU ~70 to 75ºC
-- coolant ~33.5ºC
• in ~79ºF/26ºC ambient
-- CPU ~85 to 90ºC
-- coolant ~45ºC

Edited by MrCheetah - 19 Nov 2022 at 1:09pm
• Ryzen 5600X, ROG Strix B550-I, RTX 3080 FE, 32GB Vengeance, 960GB MP510
• be quiet 500DX, i7 11700K, ROG Strix Z590-E, RTX 3090 FTW3 Ultra, 64GB HyperX Fury, 2TB SN850, iCue H150i Elite Capellix
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db188 View Drop Down
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 Nov 2022 at 2:04pm
good info from Mr. Cheetah.  bottom line is what you get from the expense of a custom loop.  there's no way to beat a custom loop in noise/temps with any other solution.  the expenditure is i would say, something in the range of $1,300 to $1,700 cooling both cpu+single graphics.  i think DS' config at the bottom of the range $1,300 while an EK option would be closer to $1,700.  imo, the EK kit is more visually appealing.  DS fairly recently told me face to face that they use Aqua parts in their LC configs, but that can easily change based on sourcing and pricing. 

it's all dependent on your component build out.  it troubles me that people will plop down serious cash on the highest end components (components that require serious power) w/o much thought on what it takes to both utilize the potential performance and maintain it.  these folks typically will return to the forums complaining about why their expensive pc isn't performing up to their expectations.  DS is partly to blame as they should be advising these folks better on how to properly conceptualize any pc build on any budget. 
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Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
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MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
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