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Where's all the SATA III SSDs?

Post Date: 2010-11-01
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ablahblah View Drop Down
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Posts: 2312 		  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Where's all the SATA III SSDs?
    Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 5:23pm
Just wondering, excuse my basic knowledge of SSDs, lol. The thing I'm not getting is that why SSDs haven't been ported over to eat up the bandwidth that SATA III offers. Current SATA II SSDs have managed to finish out the SATA II cap, and OCZ originally sidestepped that cap with PCI SSDs. OCZ's RevoDriveX2 is claimed to be able to hit a maximum read of 740mb/s, which already breaches the SATA III limit actually, lol.

Edited by ablahblah - 01 Nov 2010 at 5:24pm
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Posts: 421 		  Quote Kyu Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 6:23pm
Crucial is over on SATAIII
Those Readings are alittle tricky, I believe those Read/write speeds are Burst speeds. so they may reach the cap of SATAII , they still dont take full advantage of SATAII yet. so SATAIII wont be a huge advantage.
but then again I'm beyond outdated lol
 
honestly I'm not ready to jump on the latest SSD yet, not 1 bit impressive, and they seem to be junky still
before someone tries to flame me or suggest I move over to SSD's
and I'm missing the night and day difference between old school harddrives vs SSD.
 
I'm still currently on Mtron's on Raid0
so yeah I do experience the benifit of SSDs :)
just not a major fan of MLC's yet


Edited by Kyu - 01 Nov 2010 at 6:24pm
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Dragoonseal View Drop Down
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Posts: 2247 		  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 7:14pm
Originally posted by Kyu

Crucial is over on SATAIII
Those Readings are alittle tricky, I believe those Read/write speeds are Burst speeds. so they may reach the cap of SATAII , they still dont take full advantage of SATAII yet. so SATAIII wont be a huge advantage.
but then again I'm beyond outdated lol

The advertised values on the Crucial RealSSD C300's, or basically any SSDs on the market ever, are the sequential speeds. As in, large files. Speeds for smaller files are much much slower and no where near reaching the SATA II cap.
 
honestly I'm not ready to jump on the latest SSD yet, not 1 bit impressive, and they seem to be junky still

Your info seems a tad.. dated.

I'm still currently on Mtron's on Raid0
so yeah I do experience the benifit of SSDs :)
just not a major fan of MLC's yet

No offense, but, I would hesitate to even call something that old an SSD. They're more like glorified USB flash sticks. The old crappy USB flash sticks.

Old SSDs had incredibly bad small file performance, and that's about the only area that SSDs are notably better than HDDs at, so you can't really get the SSD experience without it. Sad
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Posts: 421 		  Quote Kyu Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 7:35pm

True my SSD is very old, Hahaha

How ever vs. my other MLC SSDs  
My mtrons are a lot more reliable and little faster, but just may be my imagination lol
 
the other MLC i was comparing with were intel I think 2nd gen, I believe 1st gen were actually SLC
and a corsair, forgot which model probably crap since it was noticablly slow


Edited by Kyu - 01 Nov 2010 at 7:38pm
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Dragoonseal View Drop Down
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Posts: 2247 		  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Kyu

How ever vs. my other MLC SSDs  
My mtrons are a lot more reliable and little faster, but just may be my imagination lol

Just give them a quick benchmark or two, easy enough to put into perspective.

I recommend AS SSD and CrystalDiskMark 3.0.

Seq speeds are large files, thats the maximum speed the SSDs will be capable of reaching. Sequential speeds aren't particularly important, even HDDs can do 130MB/s+ there, but they're good to know none the less.

Of much more important note will be the 4k speeds (4kb small files), 4k speeds at 32 and 64 queue depths (many small files at one time), and access times.
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Posts: 421 		  Quote Kyu Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Nov 2010 at 8:07pm
ah good point, I'll have some time this weekend to test em out properly.
 
It'll probably fill in all my questions marks i've been having on my mtron pros
thanks for the link Confused%20Wink
 
probably help me figure out where my bottleneck is at also


Edited by Kyu - 01 Nov 2010 at 8:08pm
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Posts: 2312 		  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 1:16am
ah you're right, the RevoDriveX2 has a sustained write speed maximum of 600mbps. Right on the dollar with SATA III bandwidth, lol.

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/solid-state-drives/pci-express/revodrive/ocz-revodrive-x2-pci-express-ssd-.html

Crucial I'm aware of, I just wasn't too fairly impressed with their marks, ehehe. Really, I should have named this topic "Where are all the SSDs that really take advantage of SATA III bandwidth?", lol. Crucial barely tops SATA II speeds and nudges into SATA III territory, but isn't really taking advantage of it. Didn't quite get how a thing like the RevoDriveX2 can already exist without an appropriate SATA III drive existing with at least 400mbps write.


Edited by ablahblah - 02 Nov 2010 at 1:19am
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Posts: 5084 		  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 8:40am
Revo = RAID.  You can break 2000Mbps read speed with SATA II drives.  I know that for a fact. Big%20Smile
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Posts: 2247 		  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Nov 2010 at 10:26am
Originally posted by ablahblah

ah you're right, the RevoDriveX2 has a sustained write speed maximum of 600mbps. Right on the dollar with SATA III bandwidth, lol.

Marvell's SATA III tops out at 390MB/s. Its theoretical max is 500MB/s, but never gets there because of overhead.

No where close to 600MB/s.

Crucial I'm aware of, I just wasn't too fairly impressed with their marks, ehehe. Really, I should have named this topic "Where are all the SSDs that really take advantage of SATA III bandwidth?", lol. Crucial barely tops SATA II speeds and nudges into SATA III territory, but isn't really taking advantage of it.

Exactly.

I'm not sure why everyone else always seems to miss this point. It's sequential speeds barely manage to break SATA II limits, but its small file speeds don't even come close. And its small file speeds are significantly better on Intel's SATA II than Marvell's SATA III.

Didn't quite get how a thing like the RevoDriveX2 can already exist without an appropriate SATA III drive existing with at least 400mbps write.

It's a RAID 0 of four SandForce drives on a really crappy hardware RAID card. Only 600MB/s sustained? That's barely 150MB/s per drive, pathetic. And the price is absolutely ridiculous. Sad

You'd be much better off with just three normal Intel SSDs on the ICH10R. Better performance, much cheaper.
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Posts: 2312 		  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 1:39am
revo's a raid card...well, that explains a lot. so in actuality, SSD tech isn't quite advanced enough to break into SATA III territory (with speeds that are actually worthwhile)?


Edited by ablahblah - 03 Nov 2010 at 1:41am
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Posts: 2247 		  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 1:58am
Faster sequential speeds aren't really very special. I think they're working more on all the other aspects. Access time, small file performance, reliability, price, self maintenance, etc.
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Posts: 2312 		  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 2:05am
Good points.

The day where SSDs can truly compete with HDDs in terms of price is coming, sort of slow, but it's coming, right?

Edited by ablahblah - 03 Nov 2010 at 2:09am
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Posts: 2247 		  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 3:12am
Originally posted by ablahblah

Good points.

The day where SSDs can truly compete with HDDs in terms of price is coming, sort of slow, but it's coming, right?

No, I'm fairly sure we're going to reach the limits of how much we can shrink NAND manufacturing pretty soon here, they quite likely may never get down to the GB/$ levels of conventional HDDs.

But still, prices should still come down significantly, I'm sure they'll easily get to the point of being cheap enough to warrant an OS/app SSD for all mainstream and even budget PCs before long.

So they're not going anywhere, but neither are conventional HDDs.
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Posts: 2312 		  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Nov 2010 at 4:43pm
Well, obviously GB per dollar isn't really coming along, but as in bridging the price gap in general. Making it affordable enough for the general public is what I meant.

Frustrated i just restated what you said  LOL


Edited by ablahblah - 03 Nov 2010 at 4:44pm
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