Would You Upgrade This 12 Year Old PC Or Buy A New

Welcome back! I happen to know you were once a respected regular here. Congrats on one of the longest-lived rigs we've encountered!

Maybe you think this way: which 12 year old part has the most life left in it? I think the answer is pretty obvious. The only way you get a rig anywhere near capable of long life like yours is to start anew, unless you like the idea of failure after failure being your impetus to upgrade. If you want to assemble parts and build into your HAF, go for it, but there is no part aside from the case that can hold a candle to what has been improved upon over twelve years. Everything is newer, more efficient, vastly more capable. I had my first DS rig from that era, purchased in May, 2010. I didn't upgrade anything but storage for almost 8 years, and then it was "just time" for a new rig. I have a 6 core from early 2018, a pretty early model NVMe SSD, and a GTX 1070. Runs perfectly 24/7, and faster than ever. Almost instant everything, but it's waaayyy behind what's available now.

Because I know DS and believe in their quality, I expect this one to run well until it just doesn't in around 3 more years. Then I suspect I may buy new, just to be sure I don't mix parts near failure.

You really don't have to buy a monster anymore to get a great system IMHO. The CPUs are overpowered for gaming, so no worries. AMD has been reclaiming ground for several years, and they beat Intel to the punch by a lot with Zen 3 5000 series procs.

The GPUs are in such short supply you can pay up to triple MSRP for one, so I always advise only what you must have to meet your expectations, because the next gen will always be better, and hopefully much cheaper. 3060 TI for 1080p, 3070 for 1440p, and 3080 for 4K. It's not the time to "future proof" by spending more. It's likely to be much cheaper just to upgrade when you think it's time.

So, that's my take. Just FYI, I'm a 72-year-old with PC gaming experience that goes back 36 years, if that matters.   

Nice job on the longevity!

I can't quite relate on personal age, but those specs...

A Raptor drive and LightScribe -- part of what dreams were made of back then.

Originally posted by Onkel_Ken Do you think it would be about as good a performer as what I had?

CPUs and GPUs have certainly improved over the years. Although, CPUs not nearly as much as GPUs.

Intel Core i7-920 vs. Intel Core i7-10700F | UserBenchmarks

Nvidia GTX Titan vs. Nvidia RTX 3080 | UserBenchmarks

For CPUs, instructions per cycle/clock has increased a little. However, a lot of the boost is actually from integrated memory controllers (versus on the chipset), faster memory support, and extra PCIe lane support that allows one NVMe drive to communicate directly with the CPU (again, rather than going through the chipset).

For GPUs, core and RAM clock speed increases, of course. Although, a lot of performance uplift has come from adding cores to perform specific tasks (e.g., ray tracing).

MrCheetah,

Thank you for the links on the CPU & GPU Specs! Amazing how performance specs have improved over the years.

Your input was much appreciated! :-)

Originally posted by Onkel_Ken Amazing how performance specs have improved over the years.

If you want a little more...



I miss when this cool stuff existed... | JayzTwoCents (YouTube)

A recently posted nostalgic look comparing an ATI Radeon HD 5970 (circa 2009) against the current gen. AMD cards, specifically a Radeon RX 6800.

Not the perfect comparison. Although, even an RX 6600 XT is ~4x to 5x faster.

Edited by MrCheetah - 09 Oct 2021 at 10:54am

It appears it might take up to two months to get a custom build. From November to June, it could take as much as 4 months, depending on how bad the supply for the parts one ordered. Things showed solid improvement for the next few months, and DS was getting custom builds out often within3-6 weeks. Just recently, things seem to have slowed a bit. There appears to be some significant hassle with shipment through Fedex when builds are ready to go. Check with DS for the latest. Feel free to e-mail [email protected] for the latest. I'm sure he knows who you are and would be happy to help.

We can get you a pretty great design well under $4000 if I have guessed correctly your specific needs. I'm assuming you don't have a top-end video need, and that gaming is your primary use. I'm not going to suggest a productivity-heavy CPU, but if you need it to, the proc I think you should have will outperform an equivalent Intel chip.

Here you go:

https://www.digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=4123584

I don't usually choose the Velox case. Most folks asking for advice also want a rig they can show off, and the Lumos with a bit of RGB added fits that bill well. The Velox window is on the right as one views from the front. The motherboard, then, to display the parts, is upside down. The video card (and logo) is upside down, but the fans are also allowing the heat to escape upwards.

I like the AMD 5800X for this build because it is nearly as fast as the top Intel 11900K for gaming, but much better at multi-core performance. Gaming is still highly single-core dependent, but to the extent you want to do other things, AMD is superior. I also like the range of motherboards that an AMD CPU allows here. I like to step up from the stock mobos when the budget allows, as we get better heat management and might well have a longer-lasting part that way. I like the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon with WI-Fi built in.

I'm recommending 32GB of RAM so you'll be set for a very long time. It's overkill for gaming at the moment, but it's a nice-to-have for the future.

The 850W PSU will be plenty.

The Samsung 980 PRO NVMe SSD is one of the fastest consumer drives around, and I like a compact size for the "C" drive for easy, fast back-ups and fast scanning.

I chose another NVMe M.2 form factor SSD for drive 2. This one is for your favorite games library. It's a PCIe Gen 3 to save a few bucks. It's a might slower than the Gen 4 980, but really fast for loading games. You might opt for the 2GB 970 EVO if you don't do storage upgrades, but stay away from the 860 PRO SATA drives. They are not a good value here IMHO.

I chose the Nvidia RTX 3070 if you game at 1440p monitor resolution at higher framerates. If you are still happy with 1080p, the right card is the 3060 Ti. At only $60 more than the 3060, it allows an upgrade to a high framerate 1080p monitor if you don't have one, and will perform well at that res for years to come. The 3080 that comes with the Lynx Ultimate is really for gaming at 4K.

The dual fan all-in-one sealed liquid cooler is maintenance free and does a very good job. They don't last forever, but we never hear of them leaking, and there just aren't a lot of posts about them.

No overclocking needed these days. No "OS boost".

The RGB fans aren't much better than the standard fans, just brighter.

Come back with questions or more specific needs and we'll do our best to help you decide.

Crete,

I took your advice and ordered pretty much the configuration you recommended but upgraded the the CPU to a 5900 and added extra high end audio since I love to use my Sennheisers to listen to surround sound. Ran pretty close to $5,000 but what the heck? Added a solid 3 year parts warranty just in case!

Updated to show 3070 to 3080 Upgrade I made later to the order

Order Contents:
- Digital Storm Desktop - Config ID 4126186 (Config # 4126186) -
- -- NVIDIA - Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy (Digital Code) (Config # 4126186) - Quantity: 1 -

System Configuration:

Chassis Model: Digital Storm Velox
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X (12-Core) 4.8 GHz Turbo
Motherboard: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PRO CARBON (Wi-Fi) (AMD X570) (Up to 2x PCI-E Devices) (No SLI Support)
System Memory: 32GB DDR4 3200MHz Digital Storm Performance Series
Power Supply: 850W Digital Storm Performance Series (Modular) (80 Plus Gold)
Expansion Bay: Firmware TPM Activation - Windows 11 Upgrade Ready - (BIOS)
Optical Drive: External USB - Blu-Ray Writer & Player (Blu-Ray 6x) & DVD/CD Writer
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD M.2 (500GB Samsung 980 PRO) (NVM Express)
Storage Set 2: 1x SSD M.2 (1TB Samsung 970 EVO PLUS) (NVM Express)
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 1x GeForce RTX 3080 10GB (VR Ready)
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster AE-7 (Hi-Res) (Ultimate Audio Playback)
Add On Card: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex Liquid CPU Cooler (Dual Fan) (Fully Sealed + No Maintenance)
HydroLux Tubing Style: - Not Applicable, I do not have a custom HydroLux liquid cooling system selected
HydroLux Fluid Color: - Not Applicable, I do not have a custom HydroLux liquid cooling system selected
Cable Management: Premium Cable Management (Strategically Routed & Organized for Airflow)
Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Remote Controlled Advanced LED Lighting System (Multiple RGB Color Modes)
Software Control: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
CPU Boost: Stock Factory Turbo Boost Advanced Automatic Overclocking
Graphics: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
OS Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Professional (64-Bit)
Recovery Tools: USB Drive - Windows 10 Installation (Format and Clean Install)
Virus Protection: Windows Defender Antivirus (Built-in to Windows 10)
Office: - No Thanks
Mouse Pad: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: Digital Storm MasterKeys Lite Bundle (RGB) Keyboard & Mouse
Mouse: - No Thanks
Branded Gear: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 14-21 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 5 Year Limited Warranty (5 Year Labor & 3 Year Part Replacement)


Edited by Onkel_Ken - 25 Oct 2021 at 12:34pm

Cretae,

I just couldn't help myself regarding the 5900X :-)

I have been an Extra Class Amateur Radio operator WD9GNG for over 40 years and have all kinds of radio software running on this computer. I do a lot on digital Amateur Radio including Slow Scan TV as well as many digital formats. I also use the computer as the main server for them so I can use my multiple radios from any location in the world with a laptop or even just my phone.

I haven't been active on the Forum for several years. Before I retired 7 years ago I maintained Boeing network infrastructure worldwide. I started back in 79 as a Computer Room technician then joined the Network Design staff doing statistical analysis on the mainframes & network links for McDonnell Douglas. Later joined IBM then Boeing maintaining local & remote network infrastructure then transitioned to a Systems Administrator role.

I also like to do fractal generation and other scientific stuff that catch my interest. Mostly I just like having a nice computer to game on and simply play while exploring different things that can be done with them.

I will have to look out for DST4ME & bprat22 now that I have showed up here again.

Digital Storm verified they have my money and my "Order Is In Progress". Stage 1: Backlog Queue but I know it is coming some day.     

Thank you again for all your help in configurating a nice system to have and cherish and maybe have a little fun with!

Cretae,

I actually worked out of the same computer facility in St. Louis for most of my time. It started out as Mc Donnell Douglas and turned into a Boeing facility. I had the same phone number there as I transitioned from McDonnell Douglas, Advantis, ISSC, IBM, Boeing, & CSC. Those folks like to outsource but keep the same people. :-)

One of my bigger projects was shutting down the McDonnell Douglas Computer Center in Mississauga Canada and rerouting all processing to St. Louis via Token Ring. Had to swap out all the Bisync Local SNA controllers on site with Token Ring then shut down the facility after verifying stuff worked into St. Louis for their aircraft factory in Canada. Took about 3 months but finally got it done.

Installed a lot of Computer Aid Design systems around the country for architects like I.M.Pei in NYC that designed the glass pyramid at the Louvre on Paris. Used both DEC & PRIME computers with CalComp plotters and Tektronix WS's.

Did a lot of project work years ago.

Sad to hear that DST4ME & bprat22 haven't been back in a while. But to be honest it has been a while since I have logged on here too. But Cretae, I knew there were no better people to trust with my money than Digital Storm and that people like you in the Forum always have people's back to be sure they get a good system they can be proud of.

You know with a $5K beast headed my way, I will be hanging around here for a while! :-)

Take care my friend and thanks once again for saving me hundreds of frustrating hours deciding on what to get. You know I have done nothing but watch all the cool Digital Storm videos and go check out CPU/GPU benchmark videos since I pulled the trigger.

I think you have me well set for my immediate needs and future entertainment and simple fun!!!!!       

Cretae,

Just finished swapping out the fan in the V8 cooler a few minutes ago. I luckily bought 3 of them when one went out several years ago. It was harder this time to change with older eyes and even harder to get up off the floor from the weird position I was in to do the surgery. It just stopped all of a sudden and gave up the ghost.

This must be a sign from heaven that I ordered the new machine just in the nick of time. :-)

Now I am really looking forward to the new machine showing up. I am glad I didn't upgrade and be fighting stuff dying like this when you least expect it. Lucky I had the spare fan and remembered how to change it. It is sure tight in there and easy to drop the mini-screws that were hard to find.

Definitely excited and thankful I pulled the trigger on the new machine when I did.

   

Cretae,

I had an article published by Kilobaud back in 1978 called "Ready On The Firing Line --- Artillery Practice for the SR-56". I had only 100 steps available on the little TI Programmable. It took longer to get from 101 steps to 100 than from 200 to 101.

It was a simulation of an Artillery Practice Range. I also sold one to them on Amortization of Sinking Funds at the same time.

My first real computer was an Atari 400 with a membrane keyboard and tape drive. I remember upgrading from 512KB to 640KB and using the extra 128KB as a Virtual Drive to hold the OS so I wasn't flipping floppies in drives to do anything.

I never liked Reverse Polish Notation on HPs programables. I preferred the AOS Algebraic Operating System on the TIs instead. Had to use both at work to do Erlang communication statistical measurements.

I still miss the old days breadboarding diodes on a perfboard to program FCC IDs to be auto read for local first responders. I was an EMT myself doing technical rope cave rescue back in the day before I got old. Used to restore damaged caves and lead wild cave tours in Missouri & Illinois. Sure wish I was younger to do stuff like that again!
    

JamesAstro,

I remember learning Basic with the old Atari 400. That was before I had to learn Cobol & Fortran etc.

I still enjoyed the old games on the Atari sitting on the floor in front of the TV. Now I can't get up from the floor without crawling to the couch first to get up.

Space Invaders and Frogger are still two of the best that I remember.

I wanted to buy an Altair computer back in the 70's I loved all the blinking lights and all the switches on the front.

I still correspond with my friend that was the President of Heath-Kit Computer division back in the day. We are both Extra class Amateur radio operators and I bought a couple magnetic loop antennas from him after he retired and started selling specialized ham radio antennas.

His call is W6LVP & I am WD9GNG and we communicate via slow scan digital over our radios or other digital formats. He is an interesting guy and was also a pilot like me except he was rotary & fixed wing qualified and I was just fixed wing qualified as a pilot.

Just reached Stage 3 this morning.

I was pleased with Stage 3!

Cretae,

Just reached Stage 4 !

I don't play many games but I was playing Call of Duty WW2 last night and had fun. I also used to play Call of Duty Black Op II, Metro Last Light & Call of Duty Modern Warfare.

I know I am getting Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy with the computer and I will most likely buy Battlefield 5 or Microsoft Flight Simulator. I got my Private Pilot license on my 17th birthday 52 years ago but haven't flown in years and thought the Flight Simulator might be fun to play with. Lots of games and simulators out there.

I have several more older games and have usually bought Call Of Duty & Battlefield games in the past. Years ago my son used to come over with his computer and we would play Battlefield Vietnam on both PCs and try to get in the same jeep and fight as a mini squad together.

I have been lucky in that I haven't had any problems with the 12 year old DS system.

I will have to look at the new games and see which ones take advantage of all the cool bells & whistles of the new system.

I did break down and spend the extra bucks and upgrade to a RTX 3080 despite the cost in case I decide to upgrade to a 4K monitor one of these days. I know it is overkill now but I couldn't help myself. The RTX 3080 ought to be playable for several years before the games outpace even it.

Thanks again for all your help. I have been spending quite a bit of time in the Forum trying to catch up on technology as well as reading reviews and manuals.

I am really impressed with the capabilities of the MSI MPG x570 MB and all the cool stuff it allows you to do and the extra quality it has in its construction and ease of use.

I am definitely looking forward to the new system arriving! Might even get one of those cool car race simulators. All kinds of possibilities.



Edited by Onkel_Ken - 25 Oct 2021 at 9:07am

Cretae,

Thanks for the heads up. But I think I will stay with the excellent build that you recommended especially since my system is in Stage 4 being built as I type. Every time we turn around somebody is making a faster & cheaper something and it is like chasing a Dragon to get the latest & greatest at any given point in time.

I have spent unknown hours studying all the cool stuff my new system will do and I am especially impressed with the upgraded MB the MSI MPG Pro you suggested. It has a lot of cool features.

I figure the 5900X & RTX 3280 ought to be an excellent system that has most of the bugs worked out already. I am really looking forward to it arriving.

I haven't been on for a few days. I had my 3rd Glaucoma surgery last week and just now able to really see anything. I have it in both eyes and expect surgeries every so often to keep seeing. Kind of a drag but there are worse issues old people have.    

Thank you once again in your assistance in configuring a solid system for Digital Storm to build for me. I am pretty sure I will happy especially compared to this old 12 year old DS. I still like this old one and don't plan to retire it. I think I will let it do my ham radio stuff that I use to control my radios and other mundane things.

I am going to try to keep the new one nice & sleek for a while as far as stuff on it. I say that but we all know how things bloat over time.

Thanks again for all your support & advice!

Cretae,

I definitely looking forward to it's eventual arrival. There is so much to read up on that I am keeping busy just getting up to speed with all the new features and capabilities.