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Yet another config evaluation string

Post Date: 2009-02-16
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Acastus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		  Quote Acastus Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Yet another config evaluation string
    Posted: 16 Feb 2009 at 10:59pm
Hey folks,

Looking for advice on a system configuration. As background, I want to play my preferred MMO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) on one monitor and then use my other monitor for either another game (e.g., Hearts of Iron WWII simulation) or watching movies from a DVD. Both monitors run at 1920x1200 or less.

Price is not a major concern, I am looking for performance. I have spoken already to a really cool DS rep a few weeks ago when I was going to go for a cheaper system. After thinking it over though, I won't be happy if I don't get the screamer. So, I thought I'd throw this out for evaluation:

Ticket Number: 247126
Total Price with Instant Savings: $5,278.00

Direct Load URL: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=247126

Specifications:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 3.2GHz (Quad Core) (Extreme Performance)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Dominator DHX (High-Performance)
Power Supply: 750W PC Power & Cooling (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silencer Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 160GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Extreme Performance) (Model: SDSA2MH160G1C5)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1TB Western Digital (7200 RPM) (16MB Cache) (SATA) (Extreme Speed)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player & DVD Reader (Play Blu-Ray & Read DVD Media)
Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Cooler Master V8 (Compatible With i7 Processors)
Liquid Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a H20: Stage 3 Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Blue)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my processor
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty

A few questions:

1. If I want a third monitor, I guess I should go for the 1000w power supply, right?
2. The SSD is listed for $1200+ on DSO, but is now available on newegg for like $790. Will DSO adjust its price to that in situations like this?
3. How much additional performance will overclocking the CPU give on this thing? I figure the 965 is already super fast, but am I missing a real noticeable difference by not overclocking?
4. The 965 will use all of hte 1866mHz on the ram right? I almost was going to go for the 920 with high MHz ram, then read that the 920 and 940 can't use anything over 1033 or something without overclocking, is that true?
5. Ive chosen the HAF here for air flow, not for looks. I want to avoid liquid cooling. Will the V8 and the HAF be okay on the heat dissapation? How about with overclock on CPU?

Thanks in advance!
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Hammer View Drop Down
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Posts: 147 		  Quote Hammer Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Feb 2009 at 11:34pm
I can answer a couple of those...one of them not so much:
 
1- I'm not sure how you can hook up a third monitor to the 295, there's only 2 ports...I think. I could be wrong. And I don't think your computer's PSU has anything to do with it since monitors have their own power plugs. I've only used a 2 monitor system once and I've never thought about shooting for 3 or more.
 
3- The 965 OCs very well, especcially if you get a liquid cooling option. But you might still get to 4GHz with air. You're spending so much on this computer it almost seems a shame to stay with an air cooling solution. If maintenence and hassle are what you're trying to avoid, the stage 2: Cool-It Eliminator is self contained and reviews say they don't carry the hassle of larger radiator/pump Liquid coolers...but it's still your choice in the end. Maybe DSO will start carrying the v10, then I can see one good reason to stay air cooling.
 
4- Yes, the 965 is the only one of the 3 that can handle the high MHz ram. Since the 920 and the 940 aren't unlocked; buying 1333MHz RAM for them is all you can do...and when you OC the processor, you OC the RAM at the same time.
 
5- The HAF is 'the best' air cooling case you're gonna find and you can still OC without liquid cooling just fine, though you'll get a higher stable OC with LC. But if you do decide to stick to your guns and avoid LC altogether, you picked the right case for it.
 
But on a side note, I'd advice against a 1tb HD and go with two 500mb HDs. 1tb drives take FOREVER to scan and defrag and it turns into a giant unneccesary hassle. And as for a cheaper system, unless you reeeeeally want the SSD, a 150Gb Velociraptor will offer very nice speeds at a HUUUUGE savings. If boot times are you goal, maybe a smaller 32Gb SSD will do and you can still get a veloci for gaming and still save a ton of money. But again if you really want that SSD, don't pay attention to me.Wacko
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Onkel_Ken View Drop Down
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Posts: 2961 		  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Feb 2009 at 12:00am
FYI in the 295 there are 3 ports. 2 DVI and 1 HDMI.  The HDMI port does not work during boot and post.  I had to buy a HDMI to DVI cable for my HP 2408h since it only had a HDMI & VGA port.  I need to see the boot up sequence so I needed the DVI cable connection in order to have digital quality at the same time.
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Feb 2009 at 12:37am
2. DS prices are always different and higher then newegg due to installation and DS's warranty added to the product.

If you gonna spend all that money you have to go with LC, why don't you want LC?

here you go Ticket# 248365 --- Price: $4574 (To see this build click here)

Copy of Specifications:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 3.2GHz (Quad Core) (Extreme Performance)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Dominator DHX (High-Performance)
Power Supply: 1000W Silverstone OP1000-E (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache) (Extreme Speed)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player & DVD Reader (Play Blu-Ray & Read DVD Media)
Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295 1.792GB (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU
Liquid Color:UV Green: High Glowing Non-conductive Fluid (Requires H20: Stage 3 & UV Lighting)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (UV) (Creates Glowing Effect For H20: Stage 3 UV Fluid)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty

Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers
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Acastus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		  Quote Acastus Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Feb 2009 at 9:43am
Thanks for the responses so far guys. A couple follow ups:
 
Originally posted by Hammer

1- I'm not sure how you can hook up a third monitor to the 295, there's only 2 ports...I think. I could be wrong. And I don't think your computer's PSU has anything to do with it since monitors have their own power plugs. I've only used a 2 monitor system once and I've never thought about shooting for 3 or more.
 
I really meant if I wanted to add a second 295 video card in the future, not running 3 cards off one monitor. I was asking whether the extra card might require the bigger power supply for the PC.
 
Originally posted by Hammer

3- ... If maintenence and hassle are what you're trying to avoid, the stage 2: Cool-It Eliminator is self contained and reviews say they don't carry the hassle of larger radiator/pump Liquid coolers...but it's still your choice in the end. Maybe DSO will start carrying the v10, then I can see one good reason to stay air cooling.
 
Exactly - the maintenance and risk associated with it are what I'm trying to avoid. I'm not an expert or even an intermediate skill level type guy. I can open a box and put a new card in, but that's about it. If something goes wrong with LC, I doubt I'll be able to do anything about it.
 
Originally posted by Hammer

But on a side note, I'd advice against a 1tb HD and go with two 500mb HDs.
 
Thanks. I see both you and DST4ME agree on this and it makes sense. I'll go with the 2x500 option you recommend.
 
Originally posted by DST4ME

If you gonna spend all that money you have to go with LC, why don't you want LC?
 
At the risk of getting shot for punning, Hammer hit the nail on the head above. I wanted to avoid LC because I'm afraid, bottom line. 
 
I see you recommended the H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU. Is that more maintenance than the Stage 2 option Hammer recommended? If so, how so? If so, how much more OC can you get with a Stage 3 vs. a Stage 2? versus the air cooled option I selected?
 
Lastly, I see you both recommended the Velociraptor HD over the SSD and I'd like to follow up here too. Let's put the money aside for a moment because I know the velociraptor is hands down better on bang for buck. My concern with plate drives and Velociraptors in particular is moving parts, especially fast moving parts. I run a manufacturing plant and I've come to hate moving parts because that's where breakdowns occur. Slow moving parts generally wear longer, but when you're talking hard drives that means lower performance. Also, I know the benchmark tests indicate that the Intel SSD's are screamers especially for read speed, and yes I'm looking for super fast boots and loading up my games.
 
So, after this long intro, my questions are, do any of you folks have direct experience with the Intel XM25 SSD's? Is the performance as good as the reviews say? And, have any of you had any reliability issues with 10K rpm drives? If not, how long and how hard have you run them?
 
EDIT: One more question. Is the Windows tweaking option worth it? What do they do? Is it risky as far as installing other applications later on? I really don't like bloat, and I don't want the OS to slow me down by continually looking for stuff that isn't there or trying to get updates I don't need. On the other hand, I don't want programs not to work either. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, especially from those who've have this option and have experience with it.
 
Thanks again for the help!


Edited by Acastus - 17 Feb 2009 at 10:18am
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PatrickB View Drop Down
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Posts: 544 		  Quote PatrickB Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Feb 2009 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Acastus


3. How much additional performance will overclocking the CPU give on this thing? I figure the 965 is already super fast, but am I missing a real noticeable difference by not overclocking?
4. The 965 will use all of hte 1866mHz on the ram right? I almost was going to go for the 920 with high MHz ram, then read that the 920 and 940 can't use anything over 1033 or something without overclocking, is that true?



3. Not overclocking the 965 is a crime and if your not going to your wasting about ~$750 dollars when you can just get a 920 and over clock it beyond the 3.2ghz stock 965 speed.

4. Basically this is how it is with the ram speeds.
920 = use 1333mhz if your not overclocking, if you are you can use 1600mhz but its not going to make much of a difference
940 = use 1600mhz, like the 920, if you are over clocking it going up a step in speed, in this case 1866mhz, is fine and you might see a difference.
965 = do not use anything below 1866mhz high speed ram is what will make this thing truly shine. This cpu is the only one that can fully utilize all of that speed. If overclocking go with 2000Mhz.
Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz for now
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Feb 2009 at 2:55pm
Acastus there is nothing to be scared of, if there was something wrong, we all wouldn't use it ourselves, DS wouldn't put a warranty on it, and we would never recommend it to you.

there is very little maintenance and I would not recommend stage 2 liquid cooling. either go frostbite or go air.

the LC system is air tight you can turn your computer any which way you want.

once a month its a good idea to check your reservoir and add a bit of liquid if necessary. (reservoir is most likely velcroed inside one of the optical drive bays, you just look at it, if the level is low you just pull it off, add a bit of liquid and put it back on the velcro.

other then that its a good idea to flush the system once every 3 to 5 years, which DS can do for you or you can do yourself.

I think somebody has scared your for no reason. it takes no skill to own a LC system.

the 290 and 940 are designed to run with 1066MHz ram but you can use 1333 or 1600 with them when they are oced. but the 1333MHz is plenty for the 920 and 940.

965 can use any speed ram.

I have had raptors for years they are great drives. always make a backup of your OS drive so that drive failure would be no concern

windows tweak it not worth it, these machine can handle alot more then little old windows

Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers
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Acastus View Drop Down
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Posts: 3 		  Quote Acastus Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 18 Feb 2009 at 6:51pm
Thanks again, guys.

After considering your feedback, I spoke to James at Digital Storm using DST4ME's configuration as a baseline. I ended up going with the 1600 Mhz RAM on James's suggestion, since apparently they are having stability issues with the 1866 Mhz RAM.

Also, I decided against the SSD, went with the velociraptor, and put the money instead into a 3 card SLI setup using nVidia 285's.

And yeh, buying the 965 and not overclocking just made no sense. So, I opted for OC and liquid cooling.

Here's the final config:

System Configuration:
Chassis Model: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 965 3.2GHz (Quad Core) (Extreme Performance)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 3X SLI (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Triple SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Corsair Dominator DHX (High-Performance)
Power Supply: 1000W Silverstone OP1000-E (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache) (Extreme Speed)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player & DVD Reader (Play Blu-Ray & Read DVD Media)
Optical Drive 2: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card(s): 3x SLI Triple (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285 1GB) (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 3: High-Performance Liquid Chilled FrostBite System For CPU
Liquid Color: UV Green: High Glowing Non-conductive Fluid (Requires H20: Stage 3 & UV Lighting)
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (UV) (Creates Glowing Effect For H20: Stage 3 UV Fluid)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
CPU Boost: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Graphics Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Memory Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Windows Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Pre-Install Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-10 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty

Sub-Total: $5,030.00
Tax: $0.00
S&H: 3-Day Air $145.66
Grand Total: $5,175.66


Thanks again for the help, wish me luck!
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DST4ME View Drop Down
DS ELITE
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Posts: 36758 		  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 18 Feb 2009 at 7:01pm
looks good, this is the first time other then samael's case that we heard the 1866 is problem.

oh well, 1600 is just fine

Nvidia Drivers----AMD Drivers
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