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Your dream monitor setup. IPS vs 120hz

Post Date: 2011-05-24

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Anglis View Drop Down
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  Quote Anglis Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Your dream monitor setup. IPS vs 120hz
    Posted: 24 May 2011 at 1:55pm
So if you had the choice between a certain setup, which would you choose? Un-parallel picture quality from an IPS panel?

Or a 3 way monitor setup with 120hz and virtually no response time with the possibility of 3D?

This is my problem. I know both have their benefits.  The IPS panels have vibrant color but their response time isn't so great (8MS).  The 120 HZ monitors are great for rigs that can push over 120fps and have very low response time (2MS), but they are TN. 

So for gaming, what would you guys rather have.

U2711 http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Displays/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=224-8284

or U3011


Or 3 x
ASUS%20VG236H%2023-Inch%20120%20Hz%203D%20Ready%20Panel%20Monitor%20with%20nVidia%203D%20Vision%20Kit%20-%20Black
ASUS VG236H 23-Inch 120 Hz 3D Ready Panel Monitor with nVidia 3D Vision Kit - Black?


3 way monitor setup in action.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-eyefinity-technology/for-consumers/Pages/experience-eyefinity.aspx



Edited by Anglis - 24 May 2011 at 1:57pm
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  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2011 at 2:05pm
The human eye can't see faster than 30hz so 120 is useless. But eternity is sick

Id go eyefinity because it looks awesome. But if possible a the dell ultraaharp $250 one in the middle.
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  Quote Anglis Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2011 at 2:16pm
120 hz looks different then a standard 60hz TN.  The clarity is better and no motion blur.  I guess if I wasn't curious about 3D i could go with 3 dell ultra sharp 23 inches.  But that is expensive too, and like I said, I like First person games like Battlefield and I hear the 120hz low response time is great.

I also hear, if you go IPS you never go back. The 30 inch dell is like $1500, so it's the same cost as the 3 way monitor.  Hard choices!


If I wear to go 120hz 3 way..i'd probably go with two GTX 580 3GB edition.  If i went with the IPS, i'd go with two 6970's.


Edited by Anglis - 24 May 2011 at 2:18pm
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  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2011 at 5:08pm
My dream monitor setup, regardless of graphics power? I remember this behemoth I saw in MaximumPC...muhuhahahaha.

Just to brag about it LOL

Samsung Syncmaster MD230X6
http://www.amazon.com/23-6-Screen-Multi-Display/dp/B003HHK6KW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306271358&sr=8-1


Edited by ablahblah - 24 May 2011 at 5:10pm
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  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2011 at 5:12pm
lol i saw that one too. first i was like holy crap i have to get that! then i see its 3k and im like... ok... maybe not. my computer doesn't even cost that much :P
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2011 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Anglis

I also hear, if you go IPS you never go back. The 30 inch dell is like $1500, so it's the same cost as the 3 way monitor.  Hard choices!

It goes on sale very frequently, sometimes as low as $1124 (example of when I got it). There is no ghosting or input lag on the Dell, I game on it 40+ hours a week.
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  Quote Anglis Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2011 at 5:27pm
I guess it'll come down for picture quality to surround picture...I have a few weeks to think on this.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2011 at 3:05am
Response time and contrast ratio are BS numbers, and impossible to compare, so ignore them.

If you want to get a higher refresh rate go with 240.

keep in mind in 3D and say 3 x 1900 x 1200 res, there is not enough gpu power to support that, in 3D your fps rates are cut in half, so for example if at 1900 x 1200, in metro you are getting 24fps from a 580, in 3D you would be getting like 12 fps from a 580.
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  Quote Invader Mig Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2011 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by maxyme

The human eye can't see faster than 30hz so 120 is useless. But eternity is sick

Id go eyefinity because it looks awesome. But if possible a the dell ultraaharp $250 one in the middle.


I don't know who told you the human eye can't see more than 30hz, but that's pure and utter bs. I've had that convo so many times, but the human eye can register well beyond even 60 frames, so I just wanted to correct that common misconception once again.

As someone said, once you go isp you don't go back, and that's probably true. I think the same can be said for having a monitor at 120hz. I own on a 2233rz, and have gamed on the new Asus 120hz as well as the u2410. The u2410 looks leaps and bounds better than any TN panel ever could, but at the end of the day It's still a 60hz monitor, and I could never go back to gaming at 60hz. Even with the same Gcard the difference between 60hz and 120hz is very noticable and worth it for serious gamers, especially in FPS games. Also TN panels have faster response times than isp, but most people don't notice the difference, so it's not a big deal.

More often than not, if you've been gaming on 60hz monitors all your life then, you'll probably be better off going with the monitor with the prettier looking image. For anyone who has ever gamed on a old 120hz CRT, it's very painful gaming at 60hz.

I'd offer a sacrifice to the tech gods if I knew it'd get me a "True" 120hz ISP monitor. That sham of a Mitsubishi monitor doesn't count as it's not "True" 120.



Edited by Invader Mig - 30 May 2011 at 1:59pm
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  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2011 at 3:24pm
lights flicker on and off 60 times per second and its always still for us. because of alternating current. the higher fps make the picture clearer with less motion blur ect but we still can't see above 30ish fps.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2011 at 6:34pm
From what I understand what you can see depends on the individual, we are all different, study done in the 80s shows human eye can see around 81fps, depending on the person.

But there is more then just refresh rate that goes into what we see, there is a lot more going on.

Edited by DST4ME - 30 May 2011 at 6:40pm
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  Quote maxyme Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2011 at 6:53pm
but 81 frames per second makes no sense. maybe we can see 80fps but our brain can only process around 24. even though thats the cap it doesn't mean it cant be crisper and higher frame rates. our eye sees very fast but its limited to our brain's proccessing speed. its very complex.

source: i have a test on light and the eye in physics tommorow lol great timing. also heres a bit on wikipedia, slightly outdated but still informative
The human visual system does not see in terms of frames; it works with a continuous flow of light information.[citation needed] A related question is, “how many frames per second are needed for an observer to not see artifacts?” However, this question also does not have a single straight-forward answer. If the image switches between black and white each frame, the image appears to flicker at frame rates slower than 30 FPS (interlaced). In other words, the flicker fusion point, where the eyes see gray instead of flickering tends to be around 60 FPS (inconsistent). However, fast moving objects may require higher frame rates to avoid judder (non-smooth motion) artifacts — and the retinal fusion point can vary in different people, as in different lighting conditions. The flicker-fusion point can only be applied to digital images of absolute values, such as black and white. Where as a more analogous representation can run at lower frame rates, and still be perceived by a viewer. For example, motion blurring in digital games allows the frame rate to be lowered, while the human perception of motion remains unaffected. This would be the equivalent of introducing shades of gray into the black–white flicker.
Although human vision has no “frame rate”, it may be possible to investigate the consequences of changes in frame rate for human observers. The most famous example may be the wagon-wheel effect, a form of aliasing in the time domain; in which a spinning wheel suddenly appears to change direction when its speed approaches the frame rate of the image capture/reproduction system.
Different capture/playback systems may operate at the same frame rate, and still give a different level of "realism" or artifacts attributed to frame rate. One reason for this may be the temporal characteristics of the camera and display device.
Judder is a real problem in this day where 46 and 52-inch (1,300 mm) television sets have become the norm. The amount an object moves between frames physically on screen is now of such a magnitude that objects and backgrounds can no longer be classed as "clear". Letters cannot be read and looking at vertical objects like trees and lamp posts while the camera is panning sideways have even been known to cause headaches. The actual amount of motion blur needed to make 24 frames per second smooth eliminates every remnant of detail from the frames. Where adding the right amount of motion blur eliminates the uncomfortable side effects, it is more than often simply not done. It requires extra processing to turn the extra frames of a 120 FPS source (which is the current recording "standard"[citation needed]) into adequate motion blur for a 24 FPS target. It would also potentially remove the detail and clarity of background advertising. Today[when?], devices are up to the task of displaying 60 frames per second, using them all on the source media is very much possible. For example, the amount of data that can be stored on Blu-ray and the processing power to decode it is more than adequate. Though the extra frames when not filtered correctly, can produce a somewhat video-esque quality to the whole, the improvement to motion heavy sequences is undeniable. Televisions these days[when?] often have an option to do some kind of frame interpolation (what would be a frame between 2 real frames gets calculated to some degree), where for frames that are almost identical this can give some manner of improvement in judder, it comes nowhere close to a source having a higher number of frames, it is merely a trick to compensate for sources not having a high enough FPS rate. This interpolation creates artifacts on screen that are clearly noticeable also.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2011 at 9:23pm
I know the article, but at the top its says:

The human visual system does not see in terms of frames; it works with a continuous flow of light information.[citation needed] A related question is, “how many frames per second are needed for an observer to not see artifacts?” However, this question also does not have a single straight-forward answer.


I know the brain needs 24fps to record/see smooth but I don't believe that is the limit or proven to be the limit by anybody, as far as how many fps one can see.

the test showed upto 81 fps, not everybody saw that many, many seen lower yet due to perception and all the gaps the brain fills a person seeing 30 fps would report the same smoothness as somebody how saw 50 fps, its difference from person to person.

Edited by DST4ME - 30 May 2011 at 9:24pm
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  Quote heritage1550 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 May 2011 at 10:03pm
So when man first said "I see the light". What was he really looking at??? Strong
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  Quote Bkral Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 May 2011 at 9:47am

Hmm... why have so many people started getting IPS panels? I understand the pros and cons to both, but it seems that the IPS still benefit the productivity/design side of the house, where as the 120hz is not matched for gaming.

I use a Dell U3011 for my work, being an animator and having to have color accuracy. What all does it provide for gamers other than that? Still seems like one of the newer 120hz displays would suit them better.
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 May 2011 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Bkral

I use a Dell U3011 for my work, being an animator and having to have color accuracy. What all does it provide for gamers other than that? Still seems like one of the newer 120hz displays would suit them better.

The U3011 offers just that, unmatched IPS picture quality and color, at the highest resolution 2560x1600@60Hz.

Unfortunately 2560x1600@60Hz is the limit of current monitor cables' bandwidth, if you want 120Hz you have to step down to 1920x1200, and on a TN monitor at that (at least, I don't know of any IPS 120Hz monitors yet).

So it's picture quality and resolution vs refresh rate.

While I haven't experienced a 120Hz monitor yet, having gamed at 1920x1200 on a TN monitor for years and now gone to gaming on an IPS U3011 at 2560x1600x60Hz I know I will never go back to 1920x1200 on a TN again. =)
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 May 2011 at 3:08pm
I have a 120Hz display, and I will never go back. The 120Hz display is much more smoother. Having 60+ FPS in games are at a serious disadvantage unless you have a 120Hz display.
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  Quote Anglis Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 May 2011 at 3:37pm
Well If I did 3D with 3 monitors, I wouldn't use all 3 for 3D anyway, I'd just use the center one.

But I think i've come up with my solution.  I think the u27 which is still phenomenal, i know know it's not as good as the u30, but it can't be that far behind right?? I'll go with the u27, then get the asus 3dkit 120 hz monitor and use it as my dual monitor.  I'll primarily game with u27 because of resolution but if I want to try 3D gaming, and find that in Bad Company 2 or Battlefield 3 when it releases that i need faster movement, then I'll just use the 120hz.  That way, I spend around the same amount of money as I would for the u30. 

So u27+asus120hz= same amound for u30. So unless the u27 for some reason just sucks please tell me now, that is probably what I'm going with.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 May 2011 at 10:17pm
I would go with the u30.

Alex your games are not going to get any smoother when they are already smooth at 60fps. sure 75fps might look a tad bit better, but its not a huge deal.

also if I wanted to go to a better refresh rate, I would not waste my money on these so called 120Hz monitors, I would go for a true 240Hz, specially for 3d.

I remember back in nov LG was talking about comeing out with a ips panel at 240hz, not that I recommend LG, but one comes out, the rest follow.

Edited by DST4ME - 31 May 2011 at 10:18pm
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