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4K build input

Post Date: 2015-09-28

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Phantom1294 View Drop Down
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  Quote Phantom1294 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: 4K build input
    Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 6:52pm


Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Digital Storm Velox
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 6700K 4.0GHz (Codename Skylake) (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS Z170-DELUXE (Intel Z170 Chipset)
System Memory: 16GB DDR4 2800MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX (Extreme-Performance)
Power Supply: 1500W Corsair HX1500i (Digitally Controlled Power)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (256GB Samsung 850 PRO)
Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (1TB Western Digital - Enterprise Edition)
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB (ASUS Strix Edition)
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
HPC Processor: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: H20: HydroLux Level 3: Digital Storm Exotic Custom Cooling System (2x Video Cards + CPU + Chipset)
H20 Tube Color: Red
Chassis Fans: Corsair performance airflow upgrade
Internal Lighting: Red internal LED.
Airflow Control: Digital Storm Thermal Management Control Board & Software
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Stage 2: Overclock CPU 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz
Boost Graphics Card(s): Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Home (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD)
Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value)
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
Portable Gaming: - No Thanks
Branded Gear: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

Monitor ill buy seperately and it will be a Seiki 40 inch 4k monitor at 60HZ

Usage: Well just 4k gaming. I dont do any editing, videos or any computer related projects.

Expectations:  I would like to be able to play as high of quality as I can with the best fps I can for the price. Single monitor experience. I play a ton of games ranging from HOTS to the Witcher. Currently im looking to build a new battle station(gaming playspace) before fallout 4.

Any inputs or suggestions would be appreciated, I welcome any advice the community has to give. If there is anything I need to elaborate more on I will happily do so.



Edited by Phantom1294 - 10 Oct 2015 at 8:07pm
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 7:12pm
Dual 980 Ti cards would do just fine for 4K, so you can save some there (go with the Strix cards, as they have better power delievery circuitry and come with a sizeable default overclock from the factory).  A PCI-e SSD would be an excellent upgrade.  I would also bump the motherboard up to a Hero or Deluxe...the Z170-A can handle high memory speeds very well according to reviews out there.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 7:19pm
looks like you've nailed it to game on a single 4k monitor.  like you said, you could go for faster storage with a pcie nvme drive, but that won't really give you more gaming performance.  you might notice levels loading a bit faster.  one thing i'd change is making your secondary storage a WD Black over a Seagate hdd.  are you going to be keeping just your current games+OS on the ssd or are you trying to keep all of your games on the ssd?  you might want to increase the capacity of the drive if the latter.

i concur with the mobo advice as well. 


Edited by db188 - 28 Sep 2015 at 7:21pm
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  Quote Phantom1294 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Sep 2015 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by db188

looks like you've nailed it to game on a single 4k monitor.  like you said, you could go for faster storage with a pcie nvme drive, but that won't really give you more gaming performance.  you might notice levels loading a bit faster.  one thing i'd change is making your secondary storage a WD Black over a Seagate hdd.  are you going to be keeping just your current games+OS on the ssd or are you trying to keep all of your games on the ssd?  you might want to increase the capacity of the drive if the latter.

i concur with the mobo advice as well. 

Ill just be keeping the more demanding/favorite games on the SSD. Ill move them over somewhere else once if feel like I need the space or the performance is pretty good.
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  Quote Reece Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 8:02pm
Hi Phantom1294,

This build will work great for 4K games; however, 980tis will perform slightly better than two titans when overclocked with your water cooled setup, and you'll save money. An i7 6700K will work great, but going with two 980tis and moving to the X99 platform will cost just a much; plus you'll get a whole lot more out of the system in the future if you ever decide to upgrade your GPUs.

The titans do include extra bragging rights.
Good luck!
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Sep 2015 at 11:09pm
The titans give about a 1-2 fps advantage over the 980 Ti, regardless of how they are cooled. The GM200 chips are poor at voltage scaling, so it isn't like you can get much more out of them by giving them a lot of extra cooling and cranking up the voltage. Even though the number of ROPs are the same, the deficiency of CUDA cores and Texture Units still give the Titan X the advantage, even with a 980 Ti at a slightly higher clock from better power delivery.

As for the Z170 vs. X99, the Z170 has newer I/O (20 PCI-e 3.0 lanes vs. 8 PCI-e 2.0 lanes) and a faster interface to the Processor (DMI 3.0 vs. DMI 2.0). It can also support multiple NVMe PCI-e SSDs and doesn't use the PCI-e lanes coming directly from the processor to handle them at full speed. Also, the processors that go with the Z170 will have higher clock speeds, meaning they will perform better on applications that do not have a high amount of parallelism (a vast majority of games are included). Once heterogeneous multi-adapter technology has been successfully integrated into GPU drivers, the integrated GPUs (iGPU) in the processors can augment the graphics and compute processing of the discrete GPU (dGPU), further giving them an advantage over the larger enthusiast processors in games where GPU processing makes a much bigger difference.
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  Quote Reece Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 12:35am
Originally posted by 

The titans give about a 1-2 fps advantage over the 980 Ti, regardless of how they are cooled. The GM200 chips are poor at voltage scaling, so it isn't like you can get much more out of them by giving them a lot of extra cooling and cranking up the voltage. Even though the number of ROPs are the same, the deficiency of CUDA cores and Texture Units still give the Titan X the advantage, even with a 980 Ti at a slightly higher clock from better power delivery.

As for the Z170 vs. X99, the Z170 has newer I/O (20 PCI-e 3.0 lanes vs. 8 PCI-e 2.0 lanes) and a faster interface to the Processor (DMI 3.0 vs. DMI 2.0). It can also support multiple NVMe PCI-e SSDs and doesn't use the PCI-e lanes coming directly from the processor to handle them at full speed. Also, the processors that go with the Z170 will have higher clock speeds, meaning they will perform better on applications that do not have a high amount of parallelism (a vast majority of games are included). Once heterogeneous multi-adapter technology has been successfully integrated into GPU drivers, the integrated GPUs (iGPU) in the processors can augment the graphics and compute processing of the discrete GPU (dGPU), further giving them an advantage over the larger enthusiast processors in games where GPU processing makes a much bigger difference.


I've seen a few benchmarks of 980tis beating the Titan X when overclocked. This mostly came down to the cooler as the Titan X was a blower style. The Titan X isn't really worth the extra cost, even for developers and creators. Some cards do respond really well depending on the card you go with such as the MSI lightning brand.

I don't know where you got the PCI-e 2.0 from as I'm pretty sure X99 doesn't use PCI-e 2.0. PCI-e 2.0 is fairly old, but 2.0 wont bottleneck a singe card out yet anyway. You are right about the DMI being 2.0 on X99; however, we have yet to see that effect any real-world performance. His system would be water cooled allowing a 5820K or other reach a high Ghz rating. That's just my opinion. Either option is great!

Edit: If the user is not going to overclock, z170 platform would be a better option. As you stated, because of the higher clock speed for single-threaded applications.

Edited by Reece - 30 Sep 2015 at 12:39am
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 12:50am
Yes, it really depends on what is being benchmarked, but the additional cores and texture units will more than make up for the slightly reduced clock in the majority of benchmarks. A lot of the cards hit a ceiling just above 1500MHz; Titan X cards can reach these speeds, too...it is up to the silicon lottery, though. There are alternate coolers for the Titan X, as well: EVGA makes an ACX 2.0 cooler for it; Zotac has their ArcticStorm hybrid water/air cooler; and, of course, there are several water blocks for it.

X99 has always had PCI-e 2.0: http://ark.intel.com/products/81761. The PCI-e from the X99 is usually used for the x4, x1, Wi-Fi, Ethernet, and other similar I/O. The PCI-e lanes coming directly from the CPU are PCI-e 3.0, though. The GPUs almost always connect to the lanes coming from the processor, so the chipset has no effect on that.
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  Quote Reece Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 1:01am
Originally posted by 

Yes, it really depends on what is being benchmarked, but the additional cores and texture units will more than make up for the slightly reduced clock in the majority of benchmarks. A lot of the cards hit a ceiling just above 1500MHz; Titan X cards can reach these speeds, too...it is up to the silicon lottery, though. There are alternate coolers for the Titan X, as well: EVGA makes an ACX 2.0 cooler for it; Zotac has their ArcticStorm hybrid water/air cooler; and, of course, there are several water blocks for it.

X99 has always had PCI-e 2.0: http://ark.intel.com/products/81761. The PCI-e from the X99 is usually used for the x4, x1, Wi-Fi, Ethernet, and other similar I/O. The PCI-e lanes coming directly from the CPU are PCI-e 3.0, though. The GPUs almost always connect to the lanes coming from the processor, so the chipset has no effect on that.


Right. I still Don't see the extra cost of the Titan X being worth it. As you said yourself 1 - 2 FPS difference depending on the application. Obviously something like firestrike will show the Titan X as a better performer.

I still want to hold my stance at X99 as the extra cores will come into play down the road when the user ever decides he/she wants to upgrade the GPUs. We know three Titan Xs "bottleneck" the 5960X according to JayzTwoCents. I'd image the 6700K "bottleneck" would be larger than something like the 5820K. I want to hear hear your opinion on that.

For a here right now, pure gaming situation with no planned GPU upgrades down the road... z170 would probably be the best viable option. Correct?

Hopefully the user can take these friendly arguments and create their own opinion on the situation.
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 1:50am
No, the 980 Ti are definitely a better value, no disputing that. The Titan X will perform slightly better, that was all I was saying.

The Z170 will handle 2160p60 fine with dual GPUs in (x8/x8) or perhaps a single Pascal or Volta in x16 in the future, so X99 won't have any advantage there. There may be a problem down the road with 4320p120, but that is a ways away...there are no video interfaces that can handle that aside from possibly industrial arrays (16 x 1080p120 or 9 x 1440p120?).

So, yes, I do believe Z170 is Phantom1294's best option at the moment.
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  Quote Reece Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 1:58am
Originally posted by 

No, the 980 Ti are definitely a better value, no disputing that. The Titan X will perform slightly better, that was all I was saying.

The Z170 will handle 2160p60 fine with dual GPUs in (x8/x8) or perhaps a single Pascal or Volta in x16 in the future, so X99 won't have any advantage there. There may be a problem down the road with 4320p120, but that is a ways away...there are no video interfaces that can handle that aside from possibly industrial arrays (16 x 1080p120 or 9 x 1440p120?).

So, yes, I do believe Z170 is Phantom1294's best option at the moment.


Okay, I completely agree with you.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 4:02am
cpu bottlenecks occur when the processor is under heavy load, you can easily see this when cpu utilization is much higher than gpu utilization in games.  a typical application's cycle looks like this: start>process logic>handle input>run physics>run AI>mix audio>render graphics>back to process logic.  in this example to hit a 60 FPS target the cpu has to reach the "render graphics" part of the process in 1/60th of a second or less.  if the cpu can't, then it's going to perform that step less often.  if the gpu is capable of rendering the game faster than 60 FPS it will sit idle until the cpu gives it's render commands. 

so, what does all that mean?  if you see cpu utilization above 70% average while playing most games, you'll probably see graphics upgrades being bottlenecked.  this can help you with cpu and gpu upgrading decisions. 

-if cpu load is maxed out at 100% across a wide range of games then the cpu should be upgraded first.

-if the cpu hovers between 70% and 100% a graphics upgrade will help, but will be limited (no high end cards because performance will be wasted). 

-if the cpu load is below 70% most of the time ANY graphics upgrade is unlikely to be bottlenecked by the cpu. 

considerations specific to a decision between Haswell-E and Skylake: it seems that cpu core speed is much more of a factor in limiting the chance of cpu bottlenecking.  Skylake has both faster base and boost clocks over Haswell-E.  it also has some architectural features that can boost single core performance when needed.  the BIG question was how much cpu optimization DX12 was going to give to multi core performance.  it's really too early to make an informed statement of fact with too few early games being developed on it, and those still in alpha and beta stages. 

it's generally easier to oc fewer cores, which is one reason why you see the I7-5820K 6-core generally oc better than the 5960X 8-core.  the other reason is that the 5820K is stock clocked higher.  if you're lucky with the silicon lottery you can get a good boost clock oc'er.  the Skylake procs are 4-cores.  they generally oc better (4.5GHz seems to be the norm) across a wide range of retail sales reportedly for some reason.   

another problem is the archaic/poor sli scaling and universal support/optimizations in all games.  the next gen of graphics will offer a new interface.  currently, you get about 90% scaling with one additional card.  when you add a third card it drops dramatically (~20-30%) and a 4th card is just pitiful.  so, as you can see dual sli is about the limit for performance/dollar.  and since Jayztwocents was quoted as a source, he also said he saw cpu bottlenecking with his 3x GTX 980's as well.    
   


Edited by db188 - 30 Sep 2015 at 4:09am
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  Quote Phantom1294 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Sep 2015 at 8:24am
I do see a couple questions with regards to what ill be doing with the GPU's down the line. I will be, when the time comes, and  their performance starts to waver, switching them out for two newer cards. I will not be adding a third(or fourth) card, this is simply due to the poster above myself sentiments about the poor scaling the more cards you have.

Hopefully this situation is quite a ways away, but I thought I would clarify to help with the discussion of the cpu.

As a last note thank you all for taking the time inform me about several different options with regards to CPU(and by definition chip sets) and GPU. The information has been helpful.
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  Quote Phantom1294 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Oct 2015 at 6:36pm
update from my side I decided I would save some money for more upcoming expenses and taking suggestions from this thread make a new build. What do you guys think?

Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Digital Storm Velox
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 6700K 4.0GHz (Codename Skylake) (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS Z170-DELUXE (Intel Z170 Chipset)
System Memory: 16GB DDR4 2800MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX (Extreme-Performance)
Power Supply: 1000W Corsair HX1000i (Digitally Controlled Power)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (256GB Samsung 850 PRO)
Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (1TB Western Digital - Enterprise Edition)
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB (ASUS Strix Edition)
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
HPC Processor: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: H20: HydroLux Level 3: Digital Storm Exotic Custom Cooling System (2x Video Cards + CPU + Chipset)
H20 Tube Color:Signature HyperYellow Edition: Fluid + Clear Tubing (Requires Custom Liquid Cooling System)
Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Digital Storm RGB LED Lighting System (Requires Thermal Management Control Board & Software)
Airflow Control: Digital Storm Thermal Management Control Board & Software
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU 4.0GHz to 4.4GHz
Boost Graphics Card(s): Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 10 Home (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD)
Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value)
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
Portable Gaming: - No Thanks
Branded Gear: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Oct 2015 at 6:45pm
you can save yourself some more money with the following changes and not really notice it performance wise:

1) change your ssd to the EVO model
2) change your hdd to a WD Black model
3) change your system memory to the LPX or even DS certified
4) i know EK doesn't offer a chipset cooling option for the Asus Deluxe Z170

otherwise looks like a nice solid build.


Edited by db188 - 01 Oct 2015 at 6:46pm
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Oct 2015 at 7:04pm
I now recommend, if you can spare the money, to just get a single 1TB 850 EVO in place of both drives...gives you a single, simple storage volume, so you don't have to worry about which drive your data is going on to, better performance, etc.

With regards to there being no chipset water block, I know others have negotiated down the price of the Hydrolux cooling and only had the CPU and GPUs cooled. DS may also offer to add it later if it becomes available...you'd have to talk to them about that, though.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Oct 2015 at 7:14pm
that's like having unprotected sex.  i hope you've got some external storage solution to back that up.  i'd hate to see you 4-5 years down the road and you lose something important to a ssd failure. 

i also like to offload almost all of my page file and file folders to a data drive.


Edited by db188 - 01 Oct 2015 at 7:16pm
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Oct 2015 at 7:38pm
Yes, there should be back-up of some sort, whether it is to a cloud service or NAS. But a single solid state drive and HDD...that usually doesn't get configured as a back-up.
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  Quote Phantom1294 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by Phantom1294





Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Digital Storm Velox
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 6700K 4.0GHz (Codename Skylake) (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS Z170-DELUXE (Intel Z170 Chipset)
System Memory: 16GB DDR4 2800MHz Corsair Dominator Platinum DHX (Extreme-Performance)
Power Supply: 1500W Corsair HX1500i (Digitally Controlled Power)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (256GB Samsung 850 PRO)
Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (1TB Western Digital - Enterprise Edition)
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 Ti 6GB (ASUS Strix Edition)
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
HPC Processor: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: H20: HydroLux Level 3: Digital Storm Exotic Custom Cooling System (2x Video Cards + CPU + Chipset)
H20 Tube Color: Red
Chassis Fans: Corsair performance airflow upgrade
Internal Lighting: Red internal LED.
Airflow Control: Digital Storm Thermal Management Control Board & Software
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Stage 2: Overclock CPU 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz
Boost Graphics Card(s): Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: Yes, Disable and tweak all of the non-crucial services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Home (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD)
Virus Protection: FREE: McAfee AntiVirus Plus (1 Year Service Activation Card) (Not Pre-installed) ($35 Value)
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
Portable Gaming: - No Thanks
Branded Gear: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)


I would like to update you guys and let you know I purchased my system today, and I am extremely eager to join the stage waiting phase club.

Thank you all for your help and information it certainly helped when configuring my system.

.....im really excited I want this thing today, the wait will be real.


Edited by Phantom1294 - 10 Oct 2015 at 8:08pm
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 3:00pm
congrats man!Strong
Aventum 3
I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
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  Quote Snaike Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Oct 2015 at 10:35pm
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