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New Samsung NVMe SSD

Post Date: 2015-10-25

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db188 View Drop Down
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: New Samsung NVMe SSD
    Posted: 25 Oct 2015 at 1:45am
looky, looky, yum ,yum!l
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  Quote Snaike Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Oct 2015 at 1:55am
512GB? Are you going to install this one or wait for the 1TB to be released next year?
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Oct 2015 at 2:19am
The Intel 750 has nearly as good performance and better heat dissipation, so it won't risk the thermal throttling (http://www.anandtech.com/show/9702/samsung-950-pro-ssd-review-256gb-512gb/12).
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Oct 2015 at 8:57am
We'll be adding these soon.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Oct 2015 at 4:52pm
actually the 750 has faster random 4KB reads/writes, so for my needs i'm sticking with the Intel drive.  also, the reliability factor.  this drive does offer more capacity at a slightly less price.  it's just good to see another nail being hammered into "high end SATA's" coffin.


Edited by db188 - 25 Oct 2015 at 4:54pm
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  Quote NorrinRad Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 8:20am
Hi DB ... you must think I'm one of those weird internet forum-type stakers posting after you posts .... but not to worry, I'm just a old tech guy that can tell you're a techie like me at heart.

And I would say "Ahh ... looks like I've ran across the thread where you are showing off the part you custom ordered and was awaiting the DS wizards to get into your system!!"

... I'm sneaky about finding these kinda' posts, once I find them referenced in another thread!

Yeah, this whole new PCIe NVMe SSD market has been rapidly advancing in light years jumps over the past year. It's amazing once a new hardware standard comes up, or gets built into the hardware we use these days gets adopted and then gets to take off so quickly with really good performance.

It ain't like it was back in the day.

You know, back then (15-20 years ago) I was the tech guy that always said " well, you can always tell who the pioneers are - they're the ones with all the arrows in their backs!" hehehehe

( no offense to any native americans, I'm 1/8th cherokee ... so, tip of the hat to all my fellow native americans out there in the DS community!)

Since I've been out of support side (since I went on disability) I'm still catching up on new hardware and new technologies and trying to stay as informed as I can on stuff like this.

This is one upgrade I can see myself moving to in another year, even right after I get my new Apollo system with the 500d HDD and all the space the 4GB WD Black edition mechanical HDD will afford me.

If you get some time, try posting some links you might think would be useful for me to get more info on the new drives and cards like this and performance/real world stats I could sink my teeth into, if you could.

Yeah ... these new ultra fast SSD's are intriguing me and have been at the top of my hardware tech reviews-list for some time now to get up to speed on.

thanks for posting this, and give us some feedback on how it works with your DS system when you get and have to time to evaluate it.
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  Quote Atlas Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 10:07am
Would I be able to add this to the MCPIE Combo for my ASUS Maximus VII Impact motherboard in my Bolt 3? It seems like it would...

"The included mPCIe Combo IV device plugs into the mPCIe slot adjacent to the rear panel, adding Intel-based 802.11ac Wi-Fi and Bluetooth capabilities to the board. Additionally, the card supports use of an M.2 form factor SSD card plugged into the NGFF slot on the back of the card. Note that the NGFF slot supports PCIe style M.2 SSDs up to bandwidth of x4."



Edited by Atlas - 04 Nov 2015 at 10:21am
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 10:24am
You should. You will just want to make sure you've updated your BIOS.

Using the M.2 slot in the combo adapter will drop the bandwidth to your GPU down to x8, but the performance loss will be minimal (1 - 2 frames per second less).
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 10:29am
NorrinRad,

Check out Anandtech for comprehensive SSD reviews.

Here are also a couple overview pages from HardOCP that are pretty good:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/03/24/where_ssd_market_headed_in_2015/
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/11/02/fall_2015_solid_state_drive_technology_update

Edited by  - 04 Nov 2015 at 10:30am
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  Quote NorrinRad Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 11:33am
Thanks for the added links. I've seen quite a bit on Tom's Hardware and the forums there, but hadn't seen anything on Anandtech since I've been trying to find out more. Also, hadn't seen anything on the HardOCP site, thanks for bringing those to my attention, checking them out now!
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 12:25pm
as No Name said, that's where (Anandtech) i got the comparison (between the Intel 750 and new Samsung drive) from.  if i were using programs that leaned heavily on sequential reads/writes i'd probably reconsider my choice, but the average user/gamer gets more out of random 4k performance.  
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  Quote NorrinRad Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 12:30pm
More thoughts, random ruminations and questions regarding this thread :

from HardOCP :

As it was when we looked at the Intel 750 shortly after it was launched, specialized development tools and patterns to produce better end user experiences on NVMe are in their infancy, and the vast majority of users are not I/O constrained. Edge cases (such as games with huge assets such as high-resolution textures and expansive maps) that may load slowly are in focus, and as developers establish more targeted design patterns, NVMe will likely begin to make more of a difference.

- that's more where my interest lies, that and the fact I have a HUGE number of audio files and video files / movies and larger sized files that I think would benefit from having such an upgraded SSD drive like the new ones that are coming out.....

Samsung’s 950 Pro - The 1TB version next year will be nuts. Also, looking at New Egg : 349$ for the 500GB version out there ... makes for what linked in the HardOCP article around Price / GB = $0.68 - that's some crazy changes in just over a year with this kind of technology being developed, in my opinion.

Also, just because I'm not a math wiz : it looks like the M.2 standard specs are telling me the following (you might want to make sure I;m understanding everything ok, as I consider myself still a newb on these new SSd standards ...)

1. In dealing with something like the Samsung 950 pro's - they are a PCI-Express 3.0 x4 (12 lanes toal) situation. Installing them on something like the 40 lane Apollo system (an Asus x-99 a board with the 5930k CPU) with a sli setup with the 980ti 6GB cards (32 total lanes) and THEN installing one of these new NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 cards (as I am understanding it with my genius math mind at work) making it a total of x16/x16/(x12) but since it's a 40 lane deal, then that leaves it with 4 lanes overhead (because my particular setup runs a x16/x16/x8 PCIe bandwidth for the total 40 lanes....

my misunderstanding of how it throttles the graphics back is in how it makes the graphics cards assigned PCIe lanes after such a change...

Does it drop it to a to a x16/x8 PCIe lane assignment? leaving the full x12 lanes for the PCIe SSD card when you update the bios for a mobo like an Asus x-99 a and sli 980ti 6GB card setup like the one I will have.

Or is it assigned some other combination like, dropping BOTH graphics cards to a x8/x8 and then leaving the full x12 lanes for the new SSD.

It's just that I get confused when trying to think of how it assigns the lane bandwidth in such a x16/x16/x8
then again, as I look at my match, dammit, somethings not right .... I simply can't keep the math straight in my head.

Can you help me to understand ? (See where my misunderstanding is coming from??)

Or, rather, am I understanding all of that right?

2. The nomenclature alphabbet soup is swimming in my mind and the manufacturers are bound to make it easy on old guys like me so my head doesn't explode? I know, I know, rhetorical question.... hehehe

3. Lastly, and my experience with SLI setups and how changes to the available badwidth (and geez, I hope by my using the term "bandwidth" where the PCIe lanes are concerned is a proper thing to do, and in the way I am thinking of it all ... !!) is still very limited because I have only built, like 2 of those before, and wasn't exactly sure when I did it, how all the permutations and scenarios could change all of that for the clients I built systems for ... but it wasn't an issue, they didn't know nearly a tenth as much as I had researched and know about it, and they would never ever have to worry about the questions and issues I had flowing into my mind when building such systems.

But I digress ...

My third issue is how it effects it in real-world experience, which you spoke to and in such a brief explanation makes me understand that it really is negligible and won't really even be noticed, except in raw, number crunching data specs ... Is that correct to think in those terms?

4. The other thing is, I'm ordering my new Apollo with the 850 Samsung EVO, which as the HardOCP article talks about at the end :

"For almost everyone else, we still like Samsung’s 850 EVO (currently $164 for the 500GB) or SanDisk’s Extreme Pro ($200 for the 480GB). The 850 EVO is a performance bargain, and its 3D TLC NAND shouldn’t be plagued by the same woes that affected the 840 EVO’s planar TLC. SanDisk’s Extreme Pro brings a great warranty and very solid performance. Spending the additional money on something like a Samsung 850 Pro ($230 for 512GB) doesn’t get much in the way of increased performance due to the constraints of the SATA bus, though the 850 Pro does have proven bulletproof longevity. Conversely, the pricing on the 850 EVO is low enough (thanks to Samsung’s excellent vertical integration and massive scale) that the few bucks you might save with less expensive SATA drives hardly seems worth it; particularly when considering that many of those offerings are saddled with old school planar TLC."

which is why I went ahead and got that in my new system. Sounds like, in the end, I went all around the correct way to go about things for a price-performance value.

Lastly ... and maybe fortunately, cause this turned into a HUGE post and Text-Wall that I, and everyone else HATES to have to go read thru (especially since I used cut and paste from the articles you linked)
- My whole philosophy is not necessarily adopt the latest, greatest technology and make a good target for the arrows in my back with my old adage that dictates

"you can always tell who the pioneers are, they're the ones with all the arrows in their backs ..."

but because once newer technologies mature, the price/performance always matures with them and makes it more easier to adopt and afford to be purchased by guys like me.

I prefer to get spend *just enough* of "a little more" or at a price premium for the mature technologies that come out, but also leave room in there for a "peace of mind" factor when (if) I were to buy from a Boutique PC maker or any OEM rig.

Since I've ALWAYS resisted the urge to buy from an OEM (or other) and this is really, buying from DS is the first per-made PC Ivein over 20 years, it makes me feel my philosophy still holds true and I made the right decision THIS TIME. At least, trying to get as much a future-proofed rig that I can upgrade with newer technology and have peace of mind, but with a high-end experience in quality of parts and with the DS guys doing the building for me.

Also, I don't feel like I have to be solely reliant on myself for all troubleshooting on all issues. I have the community to draw from, as well as the DS techs if need be for serious issues.

I want to thank you all for reading all of this, and keeping up with my "train of thought process" typing mode, and appreciate any feedback you can give me.

those links were (in a nutshell) precisely more information in a short and concise way for me to better understand where things are headed and where we are at in today's terms of technology!

MANY, MANY thanks.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 1:28pm
1. the short answer is that it depends on how the particular mobo handles (routes) the lane allocation.  you can generally trust that the high-end boards will enable configs in x16(graphics)/x16(graphics)/x4(pcie ssd) on X99.  on Z170 you'll get x8/x8/x4.  make sure you read carefully on that point, especially with Z170 and its highly configurable (although with trade-offs) chipset.

2. Frustrated

3. numerous tests have shown that there is little (in the range of 1-3 fps) real world performance difference between a gpu performing at x16 or x8, even in sli configs (until you get into the 3-4 card configs) on pcie 3.0 systems.  imo, sli scaling limitations makes configs beyond two cards cost inefficient and are superfluous anyway.  you can drive a 4k setup with 2 of anything from a GTX 980 and up. 

4.  yeah, early adopters almost always get screwed in some fashion.  however, when you buy early tech from a solid company you generally buy with some confidence.  they'll either fix the problem or compensate you.  
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  Quote NorrinRad Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 2:39pm
Thanks as always, for the response DB.

Point #1 - yeah, that's why I went with the x99-a and CPU and also what I did with ordering those sweet 980ti 6GB cards...
Point #2 - LOL
Point #3 - Now I remember reading about that ... somewhere. Funny how getting into a 3+ graphics card setup actually can DECREASE performance in some games. VERY counter-intuitive. (and yes, eventually I'll get myself a new 4k widescreen monitor - or take the one I have now in the living room and use it .... but I prefer to still wait a tad longer, see the 4k prices come down on some really big, nicely outfiited with features and specs monitor come out, as well as seeing what that sweet spot may be in a few more months or even next year. I'm patient like that)
Point #4 - Totally agree. the only thing I've ever been (for the most part) willing to suspend my motto on that philosophy is with CPU's.

Only thing about that is the rest of the platform takes awhile with new CPU's to mature, and then it can be hit or miss for awhile (sometimes a LONG while) before mobos and platform specs catch up.

- another reason why I went with a mature x99 and cpu combo choice rather than dive on in for Skylake.

I always got frustrated when I'd quickly adopt what I thought was a solid CPU and take a chance with a good mobo that came out to support it and then get a bummer board.

REALLY hated that when building for a friend or my family, and then end up having to explain the whole upgrade / building process to them and why I had to RMA 3 of the exact same MOBO's until I got one that I liked and was proud to give to them with my stamp of approval. They always understood once I did that, but I always hated that when I had to do it for myself.

I figure my system will be more than future proof for me for quite sometime to come.

PS - stage 2 and 3 emails just arrived - just one day after placing the order .... makes me feel ....

SPECIAL ! lol
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 8:13pm
it was really hard for me to change from X99 over to Z170.  i still feel X99 is going to have long legs.  it's just my usage doesn't really dictate a need for X99 right now.  we'll see how things go in the future with software developers how much improvement they get with multi core cpu to gpu performance.  perhaps in a few years i'll be back to wanting a 6 or 8 core?  
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 04 Nov 2015 at 9:11pm
More cores may be coming to lower level consumer porcessors: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/29/intel-corporation-will-finally-be-upping-its-core.aspx

But we'll have to wait until Intel sorts out its 10nm production, which it has already delayed and added an unprecedented additional "tock" with Kaby Lake at 14nm.

After I had X58 and experienced issues with old, stale I/O, I figure I'm not going to rely on just upgrading the processor in the future, but the entire platform.
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 05 Nov 2015 at 3:23pm
interesting, thanks for posting the link.  
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