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New System From DS question

Post Date: 2016-05-23

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Acetylide View Drop Down
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  Quote Acetylide Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: New System From DS question
    Posted: 23 May 2016 at 7:14pm
Budget:
$2500-$3000

Expectations:
Longevity of at least 5 years.

Usage:
Light photo editing, gaming 1440p res & 4k res in the later future.

Special Needs:
I have an absolute abhorrence to OS & program update waiting times. I also hate unwanted system changes, so I use a program called Deep Freeze by Faronics, which protects the master boot file. My college uses it to prevent IT nightmares, so I followed suit once I got my laptop back in 2013. I'll be installing it as well on any new system I purchase here from DS. Bloatware is another thing I want to avoid. I dislike the computer manufacturers, such as ****, who install all of these "system check" software programs or other stuff that runs and unnecessarily eats up system resources. I've had Win7 aero themes go off due to low system resources on the ********* despite having 16 GB ram and a 2.4 GHz i7 quad-core CPU! I also prefer that a desktop does not sound like an AC unit.

Saved Ticket #: None at this time

Specifications:

I've been messing around with and gaming on computers since the late 80's. I still have a working Apple IIc. Second system was a Compaq Presario with a Pentium 120Mhz(still works). Third system was a **** XPS T500 with a PIII-500Mhz(still works, too). My most recent system was an ********* 17 laptop, which is a monster(and a bit noisy at times), but a pain to do updates due to the slow 5400rpm hard drive.

The desktop system I want to get needs to be flexible & upgradeable with room to grow. I'm unable to decide between an i7 6700 or X99 system. X99 seems to have the advantage of more PCI lanes or something like that with the higher end cpu's, but my understanding of this benefit is lost since I never really delved into computer tech that far. How does a Z170 vs X99 hold up in regards to future-proofing/technological life expectancy?

Motherboards I'm not well versed in. Potential for SLI should be available on it. Wireless would be a luxury & not a necessity since it is going to be a stationary desktop. 64 Gb RAM max potential should be enough since I do not intend to ever make it a server. However, at some point I do intend to set up 1-2 virtual machines, if possible(Win98 & XP).

Cooling: I'm not much of an overclocker. The most I would use is the automatic turbo boost for the cpu. So while I do want reliable cooling for an environment that might get a little warm(80-85 deg. F), I don't want to be going overboard with it. The system case should have a slight negative pressure(i.e. more air going out than in).

Lighting: No need for a Christmas tree.

Fans: Noctua fans would be nice. I'm surprised they do not offer them here without the need for special order.

Video card power/performance is a bit lost on me as well. I was looking at Asus STRIX 980Ti 8Gb DDR5, but not sure on how that would fare with gaming at 1440p.

Storage is up in the air right now. I was thinking about a single 1 Tb SSD Samsung EVO. Mechanical drives are cheap, but are slow as molasses whenever you want to migrate hundreds of GB of data, do software updates, etc. I won't even mess around with RAID configs because of the potential headaches(and there are MANY). On the other hand, I've read that SSDs, besides being much more expensive, may have the potential of data loss over time with years of use. A possible scenario I'm concerned about: programs sometimes do hang to the point where you just say screw it and do a hard reboot. How would a SSD handle something like this compared to a mechanical drive?

My undecided choice system:
Slade II
i7 6700 or 5820K cpu
16Gb RAM to start.
980Ti 8 Gb DDR5
1 Tb Samsung EVO SSD as boot/primary drive

That's about all I can think of at this time. Any input/suggestions would be both helpful and welcomed!






competitor's names removed...


Edited by Snaike - 24 May 2016 at 2:10am
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 May 2016 at 7:36pm
https://www.digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=1418623

This plus a GTX 1080 graphics card that comes out in a few weeks. That will put it a little above the $3k mark, but should suit you well. The GTX 1080 will get cheaper a fews weeks after it launches, so you could wait a little while more and get a slightly better deal, up to you.

If you don't like waiting for files to load and whatnot, SSD's are the way to go. The newer 950 Pro M.2 drives are much faster than standard SATA SSD's, as they are not bottlenecked with the SATA interface. But the M.2 drives are small and limited in capacity. The 950 Pro would be a good boot drive and the 850 EVO would make a good mass storage drive.

Ideally, you want memory from the same kit, as manufactures will match individual sticks of memory in each kit. Unmatched sticks can work, but they can also cause headaches, if you're unlucky. So, if you want the least worries, get the memory all at once and forget about it.

Noctua fans are alright. They are middle of the pack in performance, but high on price and certainly over-hyped by some popular but less-than-knowledgeable sources on the internet. Their CPU coolers are a good deal, however.
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  Quote Snaike Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 May 2016 at 2:10am
Just as an aside. DS systems come with zero bloatware. The clean simplicity of the new machine is a sight to behold.   
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  Quote Acetylide Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 May 2016 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by 

https://www.digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=1418623

This plus a GTX 1080 graphics card that comes out in a few weeks. That will put it a little above the $3k mark, but should suit you well. The GTX 1080 will get cheaper a fews weeks after it launches, so you could wait a little while more and get a slightly better deal, up to you.

If you don't like waiting for files to load and whatnot, SSD's are the way to go. The newer 950 Pro M.2 drives are much faster than standard SATA SSD's, as they are not bottlenecked with the SATA interface. But the M.2 drives are small and limited in capacity. The 950 Pro would be a good boot drive and the 850 EVO would make a good mass storage drive.

Ideally, you want memory from the same kit, as manufactures will match individual sticks of memory in each kit. Unmatched sticks can work, but they can also cause headaches, if you're unlucky. So, if you want the least worries, get the memory all at once and forget about it.

Noctua fans are alright. They are middle of the pack in performance, but high on price and certainly over-hyped by some popular but less-than-knowledgeable sources on the internet. Their CPU coolers are a good deal, however.


The M.2 drives are very nice, and very expensive. Plus the ones available are probably a little bit too big for just holding the OS. I might wait a little bit longer and just go with a single Samsung 2 TB SSD EVO. With USB ports growing faster now, I'm probably going to opt for external storage for large volume file(s)/libraries that do not need to be stored on the primary drive(i.e. OS image/backups).

64Gb RAM is probably way overboard for me at this point in time. It does make sense to get it all at once and not have to worry about it later on, but this would end up costing more compared to going with 4x 8Gb or 2x 16Gb for now and replacing it later on down the road with 4x 16Gb(at which point the prices would have dropped significantly). I'm figuring in overhead cost, which would mean a LOT of RAM not being utilized for quite a bit of time if going with 64Gb. I have 16Gb RAM in my current system and only ever use all of it for a short amount of time when the bloatware decides to start up in conjunction with running Flash Player, program updates, and having a couple of spreadsheets open. Non-volatile memory and cpu are the select few areas where overhead cost is acceptable/necessary.

If not Noctua for case fans, then which would you prefer for sub-20dB acoustical noise? I don't know what kind of fans they have in my laptop, but when they are running at medium to max speed, it sounds like I have a small air conditioner running.

I'll have more questions about memory, but I need to head out now.
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2016 at 12:35am
https://www.digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=1419580

Okay, so what you can do is replace the drives with the single 2TB. You can also drop the PSU down to the 750W unit is you do not intend to go with multiple graphics cards.

For the RAM, what you can do if you want really fast performance is set up a RAM-drive in a partitioned portion of the memory and load frequently used applications into it. RAM prices fluctuate a lot...recently they've been going downward, but there was a good long while where the were stagnate and even increasing at points. There is no reason to believe that RAM prices will continue to drop, especially considering they have razor thin margins so their prices are very much influenced by external forces. If you got an 8GB or 16GB kit, you could possibly get a 64GB memory kit for the amount saved, but if you got it through DS, they will have tested and made sure the system works before you received it, so you wouldn't risk having to go through the RMA process.

And for the fans, silentpcreview.com recommends the Phanteks PH-F140HP and Scythe GlideStream 120 for airflow fans. I would play around with ASUS' automatic fan profile configuration and tweak it to your liking. If you want to try to change the fan on the GPU radiator, take a look at the Gentle Typhoon and the EK Vardar fans.

Edited by  - 26 May 2016 at 12:39am
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 May 2016 at 2:42am
you can also look at Cougar's hydraulic bearing Ultra Quiet line of fans: 1200rpm, 64.4cfm, 16.6dBA for $15 a pop!  i'm running 13x140mm (and 2x120mm) Cougar white LED CFD fans in my "open case" Aventum 3 and they purr like kittens.  any of these fan suggestions from forum members will have to be special ordered (in my case i had to find and order them myself as their vendors didn't carry them).  DS only carries Corsair fans i believe.  

in your op you talked about using the auto tune oc'ing feature of the mobo if you were to oc at all.  i'd advise against this as it usually pumps far too much voltage into the proc.  Skylake is really easy to oc.  i would in fact under volt the proc at first to establish a base line voltage and then raise the multiplier until you reach instability.  at that point, i'd add voltage a step at a time until i was stable.  then i'd decide how much higher i want to try on the oc, raising the multiplier and voltage 1 increment at a time until i was satisfied, and/or i'd hit the limits of my silicon and cooling.  it's really as easy as that.  if you don't intend to oc then get a non "K" sku proc and save yourself 20 bucks. 

ssd's are far more dependable than mechanical drives.  it's true that lower end NAND flash can decay into a state of read only after thousands of rewrites.  that's why you backup your data to an external drive or cloud.  there's also processes like "wear-leveling", distributing the rewrites across all blocks evenly, to combat the decay.  there's also over-provisioning, so an ssd marketed as 400GB more than likely has around 28% more in addition to the ~8% of available space that is reserved to continue functions when the drive appears "full".  there's also the fact that mechanical drives wear out as well.  imo, longevity is a wash when considering pros/cons of each type of storage. 


Edited by db188 - 26 May 2016 at 2:46am
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  Quote Acetylide Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 May 2016 at 4:28pm
When it comes to overclocking, in my opinion you reach a point where it becomes more of a liability. The last system I overclocked was a Pentium 120Mhz where it was just a simple matter of rearranging a couple of jumpers on the motherboard. Nowadays you have to tweak voltages and a bunch of other stuff, and if you really want to see an improvement, you really have to push the cpu and spend even more for adequate cooling. I'm not opposed to overclocking, but like I said, it can reach a point where its more of a liability and you're just better off getting a new system with higher specs and a faster cpu. Plus its getting a bit too technical for me.

On the issue of RAM, I see the 2666, 2800, 3000, and 3200 Mhz modules. If I'm not going to be crazy with overclocking, or not bothering at all with it, is there any benefit to selecting 2800 or 3000 compared to 2666 Mhz RAM modules?

The SladeII(Corsair Carbide Quiet 400Q) case is rather bizarre. I was looking at the specs on Corsair's website. I understand the PS unit goes into the bottom backside, but then they have another structure in front of the PS housing, which leaves very very little room for a fan to function efficiently. From what it looks like, the elevation of the front fan is possible so that most of the air intake flow isn't being obstructed, but what if you want to have 2x 140mm fan intakes?

I'm curious about how efficient a cooling solution for this case would be if I opted for 2x 140mm fan as front intake(lower rpm), AIR: Stage 2: Noctua NH-D15 for cpu, and 2x 140mm(higher rpm) for exhaust on the top? I might throw in another 120mm exhaust fan for the back so that the 2x 140mm top exhaust fans can be run at lower rpms and still maintain a negative pressure inside the case. Keep in mind I'm not going to be going overboard with overclocking the cpu, if I ever choose to do so.
If I use the Corsair Airflow Performance Edition($99) for both the air intake & exhaust in the above setup, how much noise is this going to generate?
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  Quote  Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 May 2016 at 4:57pm
The 400Q case in the picture in the configurator looks like it has an H115i cooler with two 140mm fans on it. As you can see, this is above the harddrive cage structure ahead of the PSU. The front can support up to three 120mm fans, so there will still be 80mm of clearance down there with two 140mm fans. I'd keep the top closed to keep noise down; the front-to-back flow of air should be good for this system to run well.

The performance of RAM is dependent on the speed and the latency. The speed establishes the frequency of the clock cycles and the latency is how many clock cycles is takes for a call to complete. Generally, the faster the speed, the worse the latency, and the performance of the RAM becomes a wash. I'd recommend just going with the slowest and not paying a premium as you won't notice a difference. Some motherboards and integrated memory controllers in the CPU may have issues with higher RAM speeds, too.

https://www.digitalstorm.com/configurator.asp?id=1420639
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 May 2016 at 4:57pm
with no hard drive/optical drive cages in the way you don't need static pressure fans, so the Corsair Air Series fans that DS sells should perform quite well.  there are better/quieter fans on the market but you'd have to special order them thru DS or yourself. 

imo, if you are getting the Corsair 400Q it is because it's a quiet case.   therefore i wouldn't put fans in the top, because you'd have to remove the top (insulated) cover in order for them to be effective.  that in turn is counter productive to the design/intent of the case. 

the psu and 3.5" drive bay covers are removable if you don't like them.  i'm fairly certain Corsair has factored in any airflow drawbacks associated with them.  from the pics on their site it does look like there is some height adjustment available to the front intake fans to either clear the shroud or lower it to blow air thru the shroud.  i'm not sure which is the optimal fan positioning. 

you probably lose a little cooling performance but gain acoustic performance by running 2x140mm intake fans over the other option of 3x120mm fans.
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16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
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Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
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  Quote db188 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 May 2016 at 5:06pm
just to add onto what no name said about the ram: numerous testing has shown that even in work environments like heavy rendering/editing ram speed isn't really adding all that much to performance.  the difference between lower latency/slower ram vs higher latency/faster ram is the deciding which is more important to you: fast out of the gate or fast over the length of the race.  in the end it is a wash as no name said.  it's almost always more important, even to workstation peeps, to get more ram, rather than faster/more expensive ram.   
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I7-6700K
Gigabyte G1 Z170X Gaming GT
16GB Corsair Dominator 3000MHz
Corsair Hx1000i 1000W
Samsung M.2 980 Pro 2TB;Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
MSI RTX 3080 Ventus OC 10G LHR
Gigabyte M28U 4K
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